Mike Vick (Pittsburgh Steelers)

[Jaxbuck]

he is the secondary coach, which seems ironic yet fitting.

Yet still in the NFL which I take to mean he's NFL caliber. A point you said was "laughable".

 

[The Man]

I said he wasn't a NFL caliber head coach, I specifically stated he is a good assistant. Keep spinning......

 

[jwinslow]

I said he wasn't a NFL caliber head coach, I specifically stated he is a good assistant. Keep spinning......

That makes two of us

Talk about wild exaggeration and massive leaps of logic... he was a good coordinator, little else. Care to explain your claim about why it's undisputable that he's NFL caliber as a HC?

 

[Jaxbuck]

Vick has been a problem but not the only one. To say Atl. last coaching staff was NFL quality is laughable.

No spin needed

 

[jwinslow]

No spin needed

never mind my quoted post above.

As for your 'smoking gun' by T.M., Mora and the OC struggled this year. Still waiting for you to explain how Mora's skills as an assistant (whether it be in SF or now SEA) prove the ATL coaching staff, specifically Mora as a HC, is worth defending.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Not really... Mora and their OC seemed quite overmatched in their coaching duties. Still waiting for you to explain how Mora's skills as an assistant (whether it be in SF or now SEA) prove the ATL coaching staff, specifically Mora as a HC, is worth defending.

This is what happens when you get into a debate mid stream. Go back and look at what was said.

The Man made the statement that to say Atl's staff was NFL caliber was laughable.

I then pointed out that Mora Jr may not have been great but to dismiss him as not even NFL caliber was wild hyperbole.

Up to this moment no one has shown me how that statement wasn't exactly what I said it was. All I've seen is a bunch of ND Chief impersonations in trying to take the conversation in different directions instead of debating the only point I made.

Pretty simple really.

Mora Jr is NFL caliber

Vick is a coach killer

 

[jwinslow]

This is what happens when you get into a debate mid stream. Go back and look at what was said.

No need, I'm keeping up just fine.

The Man made the statement that to say Atl's staff was NFL caliber was laughable.

I then pointed out that Mora Jr may not have been great but to dismiss him as not even NFL caliber was wild hyperbole.

And then both of us stated that Mora seemed to be a good assistant, but has struggled as a head coach.

I asked you to explain why one winning season in 3 tries is undeniable proof that Mora is NFL caliber as a HC, yet that same 3 year span is used to bash Vick's inability to win games ("Let me know when that happens").

Your response?

Referencing Mora's new assistant coaching position and thumping your chest about winning an argument centered around Mora's head coaching ability.

 

[Jaxbuck]

And then both of us stated that Mora seemed to be a good assistant, but has struggled as a head coach.

If that had been said then it would mean you both acknowledged The Mans statement to be hyperbole and this thread would be much shorter.

All you guys tried to do was change your position mid stream. Now its not the blanket "to call them NFL caliber is laughable", its been refined to "He's a decent coordinator but not a good HC".

Whatever. I don't even acknowledge when people try that. My point remians as it has the entire time. The Mans original statement was wild hyperbole. Everything after that is a result of trying to change position on the fly.

 

[The Man]

Mora was great let me tell you. Did you see with all the coaching vacancies all the teams beating down his door? He didn't even get a HC interview, with retreads like Chan Gailey and Denny Green get calls to interview he got zero. Mora Jr. is a good NFL coordinator, his rah-rah antics don't play well in the NFL as a HC.

Reread my this post from earlier in the thread and tell me how my argument changed mid-stream.

 

[Bob Saccamano]

Sources: Vick will be exonerated for Miami incident

Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was not carrying marijuana or another illegal substance at the Miami airport and will be exonerated, league sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen on Sunday.

On Wednesday, Vick surrendered a water bottle to security at Miami International Airport that authorities believed smelled like marijuana and contained a substance in a hidden compartment. Vick was not arrested and was allowed to board his flight to Atlanta.

Miami police had said it could take weeks to decide whether charges would be filed against Vick, a three-time Pro-Bowler.

A Falcons team source confirmed that the team expects to hear something formal by Monday.

 

[jwinslow]

If that had been said then it would mean you both acknowledged The Mans statement to be hyperbole and this thread would be much shorter.

It was said, and it was pretty clear he was qualifying that he wasn't nfl quality as an assistant.

All you guys tried to do was change your position mid stream.

I'd love to see where I changed positions.

You took offense with his over the top comments about Mora not being NFL caliber, then came back with your own overzealous statement that "he is beyond a shadow of a doubt NFL caliber".

I called you on that, making it perfectly clear in my initial response that I was talking about HC worthiness (and I gave him credit as an assistant). Atlanta's shortcomings are numerous, which is another reason I'm unimpressed with JM Jr.

Still waiting for the explanation for why 1 good season in 3 tries villifies Vick yet places Mora's HC ability beyond questioning.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

First I will start with the Vick is a coach killer...

Just look at the Falcons records the year b4 he got there. Then the year he was hurt for the season. They ended up with the top 5 pick the year b4 Vick which was used to trade the Chargers and get Vick and the year he was hurt they were 4-12.

Dan Reeves went to the playoffs with Vick as did Mora. Yeah the last two seaosns the team has sucked down the stetch after starting 6-2 the past 2 years. Then the defense went down hill to end the season. We played basically every game this year with only 1 of our starting DE's and our #2 cb went down midway thru the season leaving Rossum as the #2 cb. I think we all know that is a mismatch for any nfl receiver.

Not saying that Vick didnt have anything to do with the loses but we gave up 30 pts to the freakin' Lions...

I would say that the fact that the team fell flat on its face in the past 2 years is more of a knock on the coach than QB who had games where he put up good #'s like the Cowboys game when the O put up 28 pts but the D gave up 38 pts. or the Panthers game when the Panthers ran the ball about 60 times and controlled the clock for 42 minutes no allowing the O to get on the field and get into a rhythm.

As for Mora being a NFL caliber head coach I don't believe he is and am glad that the Falcons fired him...

See my above statements on the team falling flat on their face as a reflection of their coach as part of the reason why and realizing that the OC was a joke and not putting the offense in good situations to succeed.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

im not commenting on vick as a qb, been there dont that, agreed to disagree.

but.

had water that smelled like marijuana. had a "secret" compartment with a substance. and now it wasnt anything illegal? am i the only one that smells something?

 

[sandgk]

Ever traveled on AirTran?

Yeah, but ever traveled on AirTran on Weed?

 

[osugrad21]

Link

Lough: What next for Vick?

Apparently the gun was jumped a little bit.
An ESPN report Sunday night that while there might've been something fishy in Mike Vick's water bottle, there was nothing illegal has a whole bunch of people backpedaling.
Granted, we'll still wonder what great affection he had for the bottle in not wanting to give it up to officials at the Miami airport.
Of course, one can speculate the smoothness of the introductions between new head coach and star player?