Mike Vick (Pittsburgh Steelers)

[ScarletBlood31]

It doesn't. Use him as a decoy to open up the running game? The running game that averages over 200+ rushing yards a game, is #1 in the NFL and that Vick is the key factor for making work? Yeah sounds like a grrrrrreat idea. No thanks, I'll take him at QB for now.

I also said it would open up your other receivers, but yet that doesn't help your argument so you probably chose to ignore it.


Oh, and I guess I didn't realize that your running game was so good that it couldn't be improved. But maybe you could put a true quarterback in and improve your passing offense, which is 31st in the league.

So I guess if you got in a shootout with Oakland, you guys could pull it out. . Congrats.

 

[The Man]

I also said it would open up your other receivers, but yet that doesn't help your argument so you probably chose to ignore it.


Oh, and I guess I didn't realize that your running game was so good that it couldn't be improved. But maybe you could put a true quarterback in and improve your passing offense, which is 31st in the league.

So I guess if you got in a shootout with Oakland, you guys could pull it out. . Congrats.

until our WR's start catching the ball it doesn't matter who the QB is. I have an idea, line him up at DE he could really pressure the QB with his speed or maybe OLB and blitz him every play. So make your running game significantly weaker to improve your passing game? It's a flawed argument. Falcons are 3-1 so we don't need to get into a shoot-out with anyone, this seems to be working fine.

 

[jwinslow]

Oh, and I guess I didn't realize that your running game was so good that it couldn't be improved. But maybe you could put a true quarterback in and improve your passing offense, which is 31st in the league.

Considering their rush offense was #1 in 2005, #1 in 2004, (Vick was hurt in 2003,) & #4 in 2002... I'd say it's hard to get much better, but I'm sure you know just how to do so.

no doubt about that. Can't get seperation at all it seems. Lelie is the best WR Atlanta has as Roddy White has been a huge bust. White has frying pans for hands and Vick has no confidence in him, with good reason.

So much for the 'Vick has plenty of help at WR' argument.

 

[ScarletBlood31]

Considering their rush offense was #1 in 2005, #1 in 2004, (Vick was hurt in 2003,) & #4 in 2002... I'd say it's hard to get much better, but I'm sure you know just how to do so.



So much for the 'Vick has plenty of help at WR' argument.

If you ask any coach, player, or fan who knows what hes talking about, you can always get better. It's the kind of arrogance when you starting thinking that you are perfect, that starts to deteriorate your team. You are either improving each week, or you are getting worse.


Vick's receivers are fine. They are not horrible, but they are not spectacular. Look at what McNabb is playing with. There comes to a point where you stop blaming the receivers, and start looking at the guy who is throwing the passes. Vick is an awful passer, so stop bitching about the receivers dropping passes.

31st in the league is horrible by any standards. You don't make your running game "significantly weaker" by taking Vick away from the QB position, you actually might help it some. Not only will you improve your atrocious pass offense, but giving Vick the ball as a RB or reverse man will certainly get ATL some yards, and definitely enough to make up for whatever he would have had as a QB.

 

[The Man]

If you ask any coach, player, or fan who knows what hes talking about, you can always get better. It's the kind of arrogance when you starting thinking that you are perfect, that starts to deteriorate your team. You are either improving each week, or you are getting worse.


Vick's receivers are fine. They are not horrible, but they are not spectacular. Look at what McNabb is playing with. There comes to a point where you stop blaming the receivers, and start looking at the guy who is throwing the passes. Vick is an awful passer, so stop bitching about the receivers dropping passes.

31st in the league is horrible by any standards. You don't make your running game "significantly weaker" by taking Vick away from the QB position, you actually might help it some. Not only will you improve your atrocious pass offense, but giving Vick the ball as a RB or reverse man will certainly get ATL some yards, and definitely enough to make up for whatever he would have had as a QB.

I have no idea how many Falcons games you have watched from beginning to end (I'll guess from your lack of knowledge on the way this team plays that the number is around 3) but you are really scrambling to find a point. You don't make the running game weaker w/o Vick? So Schaub will run the sprint outs, draws, and options that this offense is now based around? You realize Vick has two 100 yard rushing games this year right? So give him a reverse and a carry here and there and that will make up for all the yardage? C'mon man let this one go you know not of what you speak. Would Schaub pass for more YPG, I'm sure he could. Would that make the offense better, I don't think so. This offense is truly designed for Vick by Atl OC Greg Knapp (don't get me started on him). Dunn and Norwood get their yards because guys are keying on Michael Vick and can't sell-out on the RB's. If you don't like Vick that is fine, but your arguments are getting very silly.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

If you ask any coach, player, or fan who knows what hes talking about, you can always get better. It's the kind of arrogance when you starting thinking that you are perfect, that starts to deteriorate your team. You are either improving each week, or you are getting worse.


Vick's receivers are fine. They are not horrible, but they are not spectacular. Look at what McNabb is playing with. There comes to a point where you stop blaming the receivers, and start looking at the guy who is throwing the passes. Vick is an awful passer, so stop bitching about the receivers dropping passes.

31st in the league is horrible by any standards. You don't make your running game "significantly weaker" by taking Vick away from the QB position, you actually might help it some. Not only will you improve your atrocious pass offense, but giving Vick the ball as a RB or reverse man will certainly get ATL some yards, and definitely enough to make up for whatever he would have had as a QB.

Dude my guess is you didnt even watch the game...That is the reason why I pointed those things out earlier asking where all the hate was thinking that someone not watching the game would harp on those points, but in reality Vick had one td called back b/c of a phantom penalty and one td dropped by Jenks and 3 passes dropped by Alge. Not sure what is going on there.

Another thing to think of that the announcers kept bringing up was after one of his big runs the guy might actually let his emotion get to him and get too excited on the next play and over throw someone.

As for the team getting better in the running game, I think the Man was merely pointing out that how is it going to make the running game better when you take the main man that makes the running game go out of it.

As for the receivers being fine, once they start catching the ball and getting open on a more consistent basis they will be fine but until then, not so much.

 

[The Man]

After 4 weeks Atlanta has the #3 (Dunn, 365 yds), #5 (Vick, 333 yds), and #28 (Norwood, 217 yds) leading rushers in the NFL. If it ain't broke.......

 

[GA_bucki]

I'm not here to crucify Mr. Mexico, neither am I here to praise him.
Honestly, I'm not sure WTF is wrong with Vick but I remember in his second year (2002) that he replaced Chris Chandler and had a decent season for a second year QB.
Vick-2002
ATT-421
COMP-231
%-54.9
YDS-2936
TDs-16
INTs-8
Again, not GREAT but decent for a 2nd year guy who didn't throw that much in college.

By comparison Ben Roethlisberger's stats last year in a superbowl winning season were:
Roethlisberger-2002
ATT-268
COMP-168
%-62.7
YDS-2385
TDs-17
INTs-9

My point being, the guy CAN throw, he's done it before at this level. But instead of progressing, all he's done is regress. Could it be coaching? the overall Offensive system?

I, for one, think that the so-called west coast offense is the absolute worst O for a guy like Vick. He's not a dink-N-dunker. With his arm he needs to be throwing sideline routes, flys, corner routes, etc. not 5-yd slants across the middle.

Maybe instead of Tress&Co. coming to ATL (like they reportedly did this offseason) to study the falcons Offense, Maybe Jim Mora needs to go up to Columbus and sit at the feet of the Bucks Offensive brain trust and learn what it took for Troy Smith to go from talented athlete to All-American QB.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Maybe instead of Tress&Co. coming to ATL (like they reportedly did this offseason) to study the falcons Offense, Maybe Jim Mora needs to go up to Columbus and sit at the feet of the Bucks Offensive brain trust and learn what it took for Troy Smith to go from talented athlete to All-American QB.

I was under the impression that Mora and company went to Tress and co. to study the buckeyes O.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Honestly, I'm not sure WTF is wrong with Vick but I remember in his second year (2002) that he replaced Chris Chandler and had a decent season for a second year QB.
Vick-2002
ATT-421
COMP-231
%-54.9
YDS-2936
TDs-16
INTs-8
Again, not GREAT but decent for a 2nd year guy who didn't throw that much in college.

By comparison Ben Roethlisberger's stats last year in a superbowl winning season were:
Roethlisberger-2002
ATT-268
COMP-168
%-62.7
YDS-2385
TDs-17
INTs-9

My point being, the guy CAN throw, he's done it before at this level. But instead of progressing, all he's done is regress. Could it be coaching? the overall Offensive system?

Or could it be the 1 decent year was the fluke and the other 5 are showing his real ability? Ever take a statistics class and hear of one of those outlier things?

If a guy birdies one hole and still shoots over 100 for his round I suppose your theory is he's a good golfer based on that 1 hole and he just didn't have it together for the other 17?

Vick can't throw and Vick can't read a defense. Period.

Comparing those two seasons from two different palyers and drawing the conclusion that Vick can actually throw is simply amazing. Did you actually look at the numbers?

Let me see if I follow you. Vick throws nearly twice as many attempts, completes almost a full 10% less of them and gains 600 more yeards in the process so because Ben won a SB that year it means Mexico can pass? My fucking head hurts after that one.

 

[jwinslow]

I'm not even going to touch the WR reverses = QB runs angle

Vick's receivers are fine.

Not really.

They are not horrible, but they are not spectacular.

That's a pretty ambiguous comment... Chris Vance would fit this description at WR for OSU.

Look at what McNabb is playing with.

I see what McNabb is playing with... and Stallworth is more consistent than Atlanta's entire WR corps combined.

There comes to a point where you stop blaming the receivers, and start looking at the guy who is throwing the passes. Vick is an awful passer, so stop bitching about the receivers dropping passes.

I don't remember arguing that Vick is close to McNabb at QB, who right around the top-5 mark at QB.

It's humorous that you cannot separate the two points. I agree Vick's not that great of a passer, but why does that excuse the poor play at WR? They drop way too many catchable passes.

As for Big Ben, he's been more consistent at QB than Vick... but I'd say he's a tad bit overrated as well.

 

[exhawg]

Is it just me or does it seem like WR's have problems catching balls from lefties? That added to the velocity that Vick has when he throws might be a reason why the Atl WR's have issues catching. I don't see how Jenkins would go from being a guy with great hands to a guy with crappy hands for no reason. Of course Favre throws as hard as anyone and his receivers can catch.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Just for arguments sake can we please just admit that Vick's running game makes up for his inability to throw the ball with more than a 55% accuracy.

The Falcons are setting records in terms of rushing yards.

I am sure everyone has heard that to win in the NFL the most important thing is that you have to be able to run the ball and stop the run.

Is it just me or does it seem like WR's have problems catching balls from lefties? That added to the velocity that Vick has when he throws might be a reason why the Atl WR's have issues catching. I don't see how Jenkins would go from being a guy with great hands to a guy with crappy hands for no reason. Of course Favre throws as hard as anyone and his receivers can catch.

I just can't figure it out either. Jenkins has struggled at times to get open too which is hard for me to understand with as well as he was able to fine the open spot here. I think that Jenks has the potential to become Vick's goto guy he just has to put it all together and start hauling in the catchable balls and getting open. Then Vick needs to find him and get him the ball. I would really like to see them go over the top more often to Jenks...Even tho Lelie has made some big catches on fade routes.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

touch, accuracy and ability to find an open man are likely also need to be discussed.

 

[ScarletBlood31]

I have no idea how many Falcons games you have watched from beginning to end (I'll guess from your lack of knowledge on the way this team plays that the number is around 3) but you are really scrambling to find a point. You don't make the running game weaker w/o Vick? So Schaub will run the sprint outs, draws, and options that this offense is now based around? You realize Vick has two 100 yard rushing games this year right? So give him a reverse and a carry here and there and that will make up for all the yardage? C'mon man let this one go you know not of what you speak. Would Schaub pass for more YPG, I'm sure he could. Would that make the offense better, I don't think so. This offense is truly designed for Vick by Atl OC Greg Knapp (don't get me started on him). Dunn and Norwood get their yards because guys are keying on Michael Vick and can't sell-out on the RB's. If you don't like Vick that is fine, but your arguments are getting very silly.

The point is not to improve the running game by taking Vick away from the QB position, but to significantly improve your passing game. Obviously, a guy that is really only a threat to run the ball is going to add to the running totals and boost those up. But by having the 31st pass offense in the league, that is definitely something that should be addressed. If you put Vick at receiver, and Shaub at QB, you might drop to a top 3 or 5 running game, but your receiving game might jump 13 spots. So you can have a #3 running game, and then a #18 pass offense. That would be alot more balanced, not to mention more reliable if the running game is not working on a certain day.

Right now the falcons are being carried by their defense and special teams. Their running game is certainly very good, but to win games and playoff games nowadays, you have to be a lot more balanced than just being good at one aspect of offense.