Michigan's real nemesis - Troy or Tressel?

[jwinslow]

In the past, UM fans on GBW constantly complained about OSU fans only looking at the tressel era in the rivalry... yet now they've taken on a similar mindset over there. Lloyd is only 1-2 vs JT... the last three years are "all troy."

Also, when UM wins next year, it will prove their point

...and Krenzel?

Those years don't count, b/c Navarre was terrible (according to a large majority on GBW), never mind the squad JT brought to AA in 01 (they ignore that point).

But in 2005, Troy Smith almost singlehandedly won the game.

Ginn (twice) & Maurice Wells gave UM big advantages in field position. The defense did quite well (without Bobby C) to keep the game close for Troy.

 

[HailToMichigan]

1) you don't think that the QBs waiting in the wings aren't learning how to watch film, and break down a defense- especially in light of what they have witnessed from Troy?
2) you don't think there is a reason that Tressel recruits tough, athletic (read: can run a little) QBs?

it is impossible to say "it's Troy," so simply. Tressel is the one who put Troy in that position... not to mention the fact that Tressel is 2-1 against TSUN with Craig Krenzel.

2-1 isn't really all that significant in terms of this question. Certainly not enough to declare with certainty that Tressel minus Troy is Michigan's nemesis.

I'm sure whoever is under center for OSU next year will benefit from Tressel's coaching, and learn to read a defense and have his progressions hammered into him. But you can't coach fast feet, an accurate arm, or big-pressure-game icy veins. Smith's got all of the above.

Last year's game, if I remember it right, hinged on a crucial third-down play in which Smith escaped from an impossible situation and hit Gonzalez for a long first down. This year, I promise you the biggest worry going into the game for Michigan fans was that Smith would outrun our front seven again. That, to me, makes Smith the biggest nemesis.

Don't read into it like I'm saying Michigan's out of the woods now because Smith will be gone. Tressel's a coach to be reckoned with. But Smith is the guy that makes that offense go.

 

[jwinslow]

2-1 isn't really all that significant in terms of this question. Certainly not enough to declare with certainty that Tressel minus Troy is Michigan's nemesis.

Who offered and developed troy? It's not like he offered a no-brainer like Chris Wells or Ted Ginn who every school wanted. Heck, he already had his superstar QB in Zwick (the hype was so large that some wondered if he'd replace NC MVP Craig Krenzel).

If Antonio Henton proves to be 'another Troy' (he has shown flashes of that potential), does that give Tressel more credit for being Michigan's nemesis? If so, then why?

 

[Jaxbuck]

Tressel, and with all due respect, I don't particularly understand how this can even be an issue.

Agreed.

He's won before Troy, he's won with Troy and he'll win with whoever is next.

 

[BuckPride]

WOW! Michigan fans gagging & its not even close to next seasons game!

JT.... He can win with different players & utilizes their strengths. 2001 Game in Ann Arbor is a great example!

 

[ashlandbuck]

I'm sure whoever is under center for OSU next year will benefit from Tressel's coaching, and learn to read a defense and have his progressions hammered into him. But you can't coach fast feet, an accurate arm, or big-pressure-game icy veins. Smith's got all of the above.

Considering that scUM is losing probably 5 defensive players (11 all together) and considering the way the scUM 2 deep played in the win over Ball State, your points may be meaningless since they couldn't stop Ball state.
Boeckman, or whoever wins the starting job next year will be just fine.
It's still a team game and you are making a big mistake focusing on one player being the cause for your misery. Who will you blame for next years loss?
Since it is still a team game please realize that the Bucks return a lot of defensive starters next year that will have Mike Hart's comments buzzing around their heads that third Saturday in November. If Hart is back or not, they will want to prove a point. I'm already looking forward to it.
Finally, remember this name....Antonio Henton.

 

[BuckPride]

Then JT will revert back to using a strong defense, strong kicking game and a solid running game to win next season.

He seems to play to the strengths of his players!

Meanwhile, LLoyd will be busy picking out a different movie to use as a motivational tool to rally his kids!

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

...Last year's game, if I remember it right, hinged on a crucial third-down play in which Smith escaped from an impossible situation and hit Gonzalez for a long first down. ...

HTM, I hate to do this to you because I think you rank with some of the UT fans among the best new additions in the past couple of years...

But I don't think you remember that right. I'm pretty sure that play happened on a 2nd down.

I could be wrong I suppose, but consider this. I've watched that game several times. I'm guessing (if you're anything like me) that you've only seen it once.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

My bad H2M, we were both wrong.

According to the play-by-play of that game by the OSU Athletics Official Site, it was a first down.

O 1-10 M30 Smith, Troy pass complete to Gonzalez, A for 26 yards to the MICH4, 1ST DOWN OSU (Mason, Grant).

 

[HailToMichigan]

Considering that scUM is losing probably 5 defensive players (11 all together) and considering the way the scUM 2 deep played in the win over Ball State, your points may be meaningless since they couldn't stop Ball state.
Boeckman, or whoever wins the starting job next year will be just fine.
It's still a team game and you are making a big mistake focusing on one player being the cause for your misery. Who will you blame for next years loss?
Since it is still a team game please realize that the Bucks return a lot of defensive starters next year that will have Mike Hart's comments buzzing around their heads that third Saturday in November. If Hart is back or not, they will want to prove a point. I'm already looking forward to it.
Finally, remember this name....Antonio Henton.

What in the hell does Ball State have to do with any damn thing at all?? I guess then you could say that Ohio State's offense is gonna be trash next year, since they only scored 17 on Illinois and will lose Smith, Ginn, Datish, and Downing.....but what on earth does that have to do with anything?

jwinslow, if Antonio Henton comes out and dominates, of course it makes Tressel's case stronger. Establishes a pattern. I don't see a pattern now, because as I said, the 2-1 with Krenzel isn't enough to say much. But if Zwick was supposed to be THE guy, and Smith leapfrogged him, that says a whole lot more for Smith than it does for Tressel. Means Smith played so well that Tressel pretty much had no choice but to keep him there. If I recall right, Zwick got hurt, opening the door for Smith. Would Smith have languished on the bench these three years if not for that injury?

 

[HailToMichigan]

My bad H2M, we were both wrong.

According to the play-by-play of that game by the OSU Athletics Official Site, it was a first down.

I see. You're right, I haven't exactly gone out of my way to relive the game though Still, that play was the backbreaker.

 

[jwinslow]

What in the hell does Ball State have to do with any damn thing at all?? I guess then you could say that Ohio State's offense is gonna be trash next year, since they only scored 17 on Illinois and will lose Smith, Ginn, Datish, and Downing.....but what on earth does that have to do with anything?

Every team has bad outings. However, there's no denying that there are serious UM depth issues at DB & LB. I expect UM to be a strong team next year, but I think there will be a stiff dropoff at MLB & SLB. Stewart & Sears are shaky at corner, and Trent is a #2 CB at best, imo.

 

[ashlandbuck]

What in the hell does Ball State have to do with any damn thing at all?? I guess then you could say that Ohio State's offense is gonna be trash next year, since they only scored 17 on Illinois and will lose Smith, Ginn, Datish, and Downing.....but what on earth does that have to do with anything?

You are asking a question to prove a point and it doesn't work. Your analogy doesn't work either as you are comparing apples to oranges. You mention the OSU Offense in your comparison. An anology that would be a closer comparison would be one in which the tOSU would've brought in the second team offense for an entire half and they manage to play so horrible that I'd begin to worry about next year. The You know exactly what your defensive play at Ball state has to do with the point I made. The scUM defense will have a drop off. Of the defensive players you lose, several are highly regarded and will be 1st round dragft picks. The second team players that played a lot of the second half looked horrible.

 

[HailToMichigan]

You are asking a question to prove a point and it doesn't work. Your analogy doesn't work either as you are comparing apples to oranges. You mention the OSU Offense in your comparison. An anology that would be a closer comparison would be one in which the tOSU would've brought in the second team offense for an entire half and they manage to play so horrible that I'd begin to worry about next year. The You know exactly what your defensive play at Ball state has to do with the point I made. The scUM defense will have a drop off. Of the defensive players you lose, several are highly regarded and will be 1st round dragft picks. The second team players that played a lot of the second half looked horrible.

Yeah, but the point I'm arguing is that Troy Smith is a bigger problem for Michigan than Jim Tressel. You're telling me that Michigan's defense will drop off next year. I mean, I see where you're going, I just don't see why.

 

[Clarity]

JT...

also, for clarity (doh!),

Troy is not undefeated in Big Games. he laid an egg against StatePenn in '05...

I'm stuck interacting with PSU-types on a regular basis now. I refuse to acknowledge any game against them as a "big one." :)

My feeling on this issue is that Troy Smith was (and is) the Wolverine killer. Losing him to the NFL is good news for Michigan. However, I also believe that JT is in the business of creating those types of players.

Who is the bigger threat to Michigan? Troy Smith in the active short term. Jim Tressel in the passive long term. I think next year is a "must win" for Michigan, and their best opportunity for the last few years.

I know, I cheated. But I also think it's the right answer. Ton of reasons for Michigan fans to look forward to our meeting next year, and yet, I'm still confident in an entirely sweater vest sort of way.