Michigan State Spartans (official thread)

[Buckeye86]

Here's a Washington Post article that follows the timeline of Nassar's accusers. It includes several incidents where the parent or parents didn't go to the police because they either didn't want to believe their daughter, they thought it could have a negative effect on the daughter's prospects in athletic endeavor's, they thought it would be too traumatic for their daughter to have to talk about the abuse, or some other reason. Each of those parents, as well as the administrators and investigators who never looked closely enough to stop Nassar, must live with the fact that their lack of action may well have allowed Nassar to abuse dozens more young girls and women.

In case the point is lost here, let’s emphasize strongly that attitudes of skepticism towards victims like @Hstead and @OhioState001 are expressing is exactly what led to Nassar targeting over 150 victims for over a decade without repercussions.

And oh, by the way, a newspaper focusing on the story is what finally cracked the wall of silence and eventually ended Nassar’s free reign to abuse young girls and women.

 

[CFPBuckeye]

Did you read the "gotcha" police reports that ESPN thinks are so damning? They could be found on every college campus and in every community in America. If the rape allegations were so bad, why did the girl and her parents not go to the police? Why did the police, not the campus police by the way, and the prosecutor not bring charges in a couple of them? That's right, there wasn't any more "evidence" than he said she said and several times the "she said" didn't want to press charges.

Again, if you have read where there is overwhelming evidence to condemn Dantonio and Izzo, please present it. All I see are accusations of how awful it was to let Walton continue as a GA even though he was under investigation for hitting a woman. If you read all of the story, the prosecutor settled on a plea deal because there were witnesses that said she was not stuck. But wait, let's go back retroactively and convict Izzo because the prosecutor didn't find enough to convict Walton.

Like I said earlier, I will wait and see because so far I don't see anything so terrible that is any different than what is happening on every college across the country, among students and student/athletes.

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id...on-michigan-state-goes-larry-nassar-case-espn

• On Aug. 31, 2009, campus police responded to a domestic dispute involving a junior offensive tackle and his girlfriend in which each accused the other of destructive and violent behavior. The woman admitted to police vandalizing some of his belongings, and he admitted to trying to drag her out of her car, during which she said he removed her left shoe and began to bend her foot down "like he was trying to break it." Both declined to pursue charges.
  
  
• On Dec. 18, 2009, a woman told campus police that her boyfriend, a freshman defensive lineman, shoved her up against the wall of an elevator, pushed her to the ground, kicked her in the torso and punched her in the collarbone and under her left eye after she smacked him in the face. The football player told police he had been trying to restrain her while she tried to hit him, and he never kicked or struck her. Prosecutors dropped the case after the woman declined to press charges.
  • 
    
  • On Jan. 17, 2010, a woman told campus police that a freshman wide receiver and another football player had raped her in November 2009, prompting her to start drinking excessively and become suicidal. She said she went to the players' dorm room after a fraternity party, and the players took off her clothes and began kissing her, to which she consented. They asked her to perform oral sex on them, but she refused. She told police that when she decided to leave and bent over to put her pants on, she was raped. The players said the sex was consensual and that they took her home as soon she said she wanted to leave. Court records show no charges were filed.
    
    
  • On Aug. 31, 2013, a woman told campus police that a freshman running back grabbed her with both hands around her arms and slammed her up against a wall after she asked him to say "please" when he told her to take her feet off a chair in his dorm room. The woman had a scrape on her left elbow and on the upper side of her left buttock. The football player told police he had pushed her but never grabbed or threw her up against a wall. The woman told police she only wanted him to apologize, which he did in an officer's presence, and no charges were filed.
  • • On Oct. 29, 2013, a woman told campus police that she became extremely intoxicated at a party the night before, came back to her dorm room and passed out on her bed. The report states, "the next time she woke up, she was having her pants and legs tugged on by" a freshman football player. She said he "inserted his penis into her vagina" and "would stop and sometimes insert his penis into her mouth then return to vaginal intercourse," to which she said she did not consent. The player told police, "at no time did [the woman] tell him to stop." The woman texted him the next morning expressing regret, he told police. The woman told campus police that she did not want to seek criminal prosecution but did want to report the incident to Michigan State judicial services. No criminal charges were filed.
      
      
    • In May 2014, the parents of a deceased Michigan State student filed a report with campus police after they found a notebook from one of their daughter's therapy sessions. The writings detailed a 2007 gang rape that named four football players. Detectives started what would become a monthslong investigation involving multiple records, analysis and interviews. In June 2015, campus police sent its report to the Ingham County prosecutor's office, which declined to file charges against any of the players, noting that the woman's writings could not be used as evidence and investigators were unable to independently corroborate her claims.

[NotALegalExpert]Some of those cases are hard to prove. However, in some of those cases, there are most likely and definitely in some, signs of physical abuse. In those scenarios, there isn’t an option to press charges. Charges are filed whether the victim wants them to be or not. But yet, in all cases (where signs of physical abuse should be present,) the one(s) accused (or guilty) of the assault, are athletes and are let off the hook. That doesn’t happen to just anyone. Joe Anybody is getting charged whether the female victim wants him to be or not. Sans witness accounts that events went down to the contrary of what the victim claims, that’s how it goes. Sounds like a systemic problem, if you ask me. I’m not familiar with any community where the police show up to a domestic dispute/claim of assault, victim has visible injuries and the police are cool to just roll out leaving the accused assailant behind.[/NotALegalExpert]

 

[heisman]

Letter from MSU Board Chair Brian Breslin

Dear MSU Community,

As you know, this week has been deeply significant for the survivors of Larry Nassar’s predation and abuse. One after another, they spoke out bravely in open court last week. They asked that their voices be heard, for responsiveness, for action. We acknowledge their voices and say to the survivors, their families, and everyone in our community affected by sexual violence that we are deeply sorry and we recognize that change is overdue.

Today, the Board of Trustees met to take important actions to begin a new day at MSU. We voted to formally accept the resignation of President Lou Anna K. Simon, effective immediately, and appointed Vice President and Secretary to the Board of Trustees Bill Beekman as acting president. In addition, earlier today, Athletic Director Mark Hollis announced his retirement, effective Jan. 31. You can read his statement on the Athletics Department website. We thank him for his many years of service and contributions to MSU Athletics.

Mr. Beekman, who has served in his current role since 2008 and has been with the university in a variety of administrative roles since 1995, has agreed to serve for a short period while we identify an interim president. We will also begin a national search for MSU’s permanent president with input from all members of the MSU community—faculty, staff, students, and alumni.

But this is just the beginning. We acknowledge that there have been failures at MSU, not only in our processes and operations, but in our culture, and we are united in our determination to take all necessary steps to begin a new day and to change the environment at the university. The Board has initiated action to bring in an independent third-party to perform a top-to-bottom review of all our processes relating to health and safety, in every area of the university, and to provide recommendations that we will implement to change the culture of MSU on this important issue.

We also understand that survivors, their families, and the public have many questions about the Nassar matter, and we have asked the Attorney General’s Office to conduct a review of the events surrounding the situation. Today, we are calling on the Attorney General to begin this review as soon as possible and to appoint an independent third-party to promote bipartisan acceptance of the results.

Again, we are committed to taking action to create a culture that provides a safe environment for all members of our community, and the transition to new leadership will be a key component in helping us change course. The Board will play an integral role in these efforts and in making MSU a leader locally and nationally in preventing sexual abuse.

It is clear to the Board that we have not been focused enough on the survivors of Larry Nassar’s abuse. We deeply regret this, and it is our hope is that there will be an opportunity soon to resume dialog with counsel for the survivors, resulting in a fair and just resolution.

We cannot change the past, but we can and will devote our time and resources to foster healing and to move forward together.



Sincerely,

Brian S. Breslin

Chair, MSU Board of Trustees

 

[Steve19]

Here is the lesson. Sexual abuse is wrong. Denying it can put an entire sports franchise or a normal business at risk. Someone who does something like that is not your friend, even if you think that they are, because they are putting you at risk.

Never hide abuse. Always follow the prescribed organizational policy for reporting and resolving abuse complaints.

 

[CFPBuckeye]

Here is the lesson. Sexual abuse is wrong. Denying it can put an entire sports franchise or a normal business at risk. Someone who does something like that is not your friend, even if you think that they are, because they are putting you at risk.

Never hide abuse. Always follow the prescribed organizational policy or common sense for reporting and resolving abuse complaints.

Agreed but FIFY

 

[OhioState001]

In case the point is lost here, let’s emphasize strongly that attitudes of skepticism towards victims like @Hstead and @OhioState001 are expressing is exactly what led to Nassar targeting over 150 victims for over a decade without repercussions.

And oh, by the way, a newspaper focusing on the story is what finally cracked the wall of silence and eventually ended Nassar’s free reign to abuse young girls and women.

Innocent until proven guilty is what our society is built on. When many on here rushed to condemn Gareon Conley, there was one person supporting him. We have arguably seen more false accusations against athletes over the last year then actual substantiated claims.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Innocent until proven guilty is what our society is built on. When many on here rushed to condemn Gareon Conley, there was one person supporting him. We have arguably seen more false accusations against athletes over the last year then actual substantiated claims.

Incorrect. Innocent until proven guilty is what our criminal justice system is built on.

 

[Hstead]

I am not talking about the Nassar case. I hope he experiences sexual abuse in prison followed by rotting in hell.

I am talking about the people calling for Dantonio and Izzo to step down etc.

So far I have not seen the evidence that supports ruining their careers.

If someone has seen such evidence, please post what has led you all to believe they should step down.

 

[heisman]

I am not talking about the Nassar case. I hope he experiences sexual abuse in prison followed by rotting in hell.

I am talking about the people calling for Dantonio and Izzo to step down etc.

So far I have not seen the evidence that supports ruining their careers.

If someone has seen such evidence, please post what has led you all to believe they should step down.

Travis Walton?

 

[Buckeye86]

Innocent until proven guilty is what our society is built on. When many on here rushed to condemn Gareon Conley, there was one person supporting him. We have arguably seen more false accusations against athletes over the last year then actual substantiated claims.

Incorrect. Innocent until proven guilty is what our criminal justice system is built on.

Additionally, there is a substantial difference between remaining neutral while the justice system runs its course; and actively undermining the accusers by bringing up things like Duke lacrosee and lying/exaggerating about how often that happens.

It’s also important to emphasize that just because criminal convictions don’t happen, that doesn’t mean that no abuse took place, it just means that there wasn’t enough evidence to prove it in court.

In fact, the fact that these cases are extremely difficult to prove in court is why victims hesitate to bring their story forward in the first place.

 

[Hstead]

Travis Walton?

Do you care to expound?

From the report he ended up pleading to “littering” because they didn’t have evidence and he had witnesses that said he didn’t hit her.

She went to the hospital twice and had a “concussion”. I would have thought there would be corroborating photos? I’m guessing the photos didn’t support him hitting her?

Either way, what did Izzo do wrong? Because he didn’t fire him when he was charged?

 

[heisman]

Do you care to expound?

From the report he ended up pleading to “littering” because they didn’t have evidence and he had witnesses that said he didn’t hit her.

She went to the hospital twice and had a “concussion”. I would have thought there would be corroborating photos? I’m guessing the photos didn’t support him hitting her?

Either way, what did Izzo do wrong? Because he didn’t fire him when he was charged?

What about the gang rape? Again, it's one of his employees, not one of his players. Imagine if one of your subordinates behaved in this manner. Would they still be employed? I hope not.

http://www.limaohio.com/news/282383/travis-walton-in-heart-of-michigan-state-scandal

 

[Hstead]

What about the gang rape? Again, it's one of his employees, not one of his players. Imagine if one of your subordinates behaved in this manner. Would they still be employed? I hope not.

http://www.limaohio.com/news/282383/travis-walton-in-heart-of-michigan-state-scandal

The Lima paper just repeated the exact same story from ESPN where the prosecutor said the defense presented witnesses that contridicted the accusers details.

Basically a he said she said that the prosecutor decided in pleading out.

How is that Izzos fault? He should have fired him for being charged but not convicted?

He was fired for the alleged gang rape though no charges appear to have been filed.

 

[Bucklion]

Innocent until proven guilty is what our society is built on. When many on here rushed to condemn Gareon Conley, there was one person supporting him. We have arguably seen more false accusations against athletes over the last year then actual substantiated claims.

Why, because you can name a couple?

 

[BB73]

Additionally, there is a substantial difference between remaining neutral while the justice system runs its course; and actively undermining the accusers by bringing up things like Duke lacrosse and lying/exaggerating about how often that happens.

It’s also important to emphasize that just because criminal convictions don’t happen, that doesn’t mean that no abuse took place, it just means that there wasn’t enough evidence to prove it in court.

In fact, the fact that these cases are extremely difficult to prove in court is why victims hesitate to bring their story forward in the first place.

Unfortunately, not having enough evidence to prove a crime is far from the only reason that cases don't result in convictions. There can be coverups, payoffs, witness intimidation, political reasons, and other instances of poor judgment, selfishness, and human failure that hinder getting an appropriate result within the legal system.

Hstead, I realized that you were talking about Izzo and Dantonio rather than the Nassar situation, but I thought that Washington Post article was important and needed to be included in this thread.

Personally, regarding Izzo and Dantonio, I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude. I haven't seen enough yet to make a judgment about them either way; I didn't see the Outside The Lines piece and I probably haven't read all that's been written about the Sparty basketball and football players/employees lately. I'm in no rush either to defend them or to ask for their resignations. Hopefully the truth will come out and they and the University can make the right decisions.