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im not here to get any buyers to what i am saying... but just to dispute this... im not here saying that anyone is a bad fan or anything like that and im not saying that miami doesn't have some players that are thuggish... i do have class as a matter of fact... but i will say that i will always have pride in the school i choose to represent... i was never one to bash MoC when everything happened to him or Eric Haw when he got caught smoking his weed... and i share some of the same views as you when it comes to the brawl... but to say i dont have class is crazy... if i had no class i would do nothing but bash other schools fans for things that they cant control... which is the school and the players itself.
 
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Here's my problem with what you're trying to do right now stthegreat04:

1. You can't defend the actions of players like Meriweather, Reddick, and others that were involved in stomping and actions of a nature not in self defense. This is irregardless of prior events. You simply can't defend it. And if you try, you lose all credibility.

2. You can't defend the Miami players dancing on the logo at Louisville. It's the antithesis of class, and you lose credibility if you try to argue otherwise. But you can commend the Louisville players for not acting like Miami players in starting a big fight over it.


And I had a problem with Robert Reynolds and the Wisky/OSU logo crap as well. But the difference right now seems to be that Ohio State fans almost uniformly condemn those actions, and you won't see any attempt to defend what took place. But Miami is in, as illustrated above, DENIAL.
 
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stthegreat04;638948; said:
im not here to get any buyers to what i am saying... but just to dispute this... im not here saying that anyone is a bad fan or anything like that and im not saying that miami doesn't have some players that are thuggish... i do have class as a matter of fact... but i will say that i will always have pride in the school i choose to represent... i was never one to bash MoC when everything happened to him or Eric Haw when he got caught smoking his weed... and i share some of the same views as you when it comes to the brawl... but to say i dont have class is crazy... if i had no class i would do nothing but bash other schools fans for things that they cant control... which is the school and the players itself.

I don't know who said that you do not have class but I have two comments about this post and please also see my PM.

First, if you are here to dispute something, then by logic your goal is to get people to buy into your point of view.

Second, Miami has some things of which it can be proud. Its "thug" image isn't one of them and its thug image is all that its football program is wearing now in the eyes of most American sports fans.

You would have to be blind to not notice that virtually nobody agrees with the point of view you espouse. Not here. Not in any of the sports magazines. Not anywhere.
 
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thing thug there is something wrong ...
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Look let's get this thread back into the realm of reality and away from the 2 of, no 3 of 7, no 7 of 9 - some thugs, not all thugs - "clowning on" bullshit.

Miami has a rep.

Miami's rep was underscored thrice in a 7 game span - LSU, Louisville and FIU.

The last incident happened on a day intended to impress on local HS youngsters the benefits of the team concept over gang-like behavior - but instead underscored the latter characteristic in both squads.

All here recognize that one black sheep does not define the character of a team. By the same token one or more persons of good character (e.g., Kyle Wright) do not expulcate the sins of many (the brawl participants).

FIU's response to this was sterner from the outset than that of Miami, it remains more stern.

Miami's fanbase, and infamously in the instance of Lamar Thomas a past player, collectively embraced the disgusting behavior on field as emblematic of some mythical heart in the team. Instead, they should have recognized it for what it was - ugly behavior, which had it happened outside the stadium would have resulted in arrests, fines for all the fighters, jail time or suspended sentences for the worst offenders. This embrace of ill-disciplined violence is without doubt the part that other fans of any other team simply cannot grasp. It is like reading a Fan Forum on Planet Bizarro.

Miami claims they have instituted a zero tolerance policy, one more fight and you are gone? We shall see. The character and tone of a team is set by two groups, the coaches and the team, in particular the senior leadership. To this point that leadership is lacking - and that is a complete understatement - the leopard will have a hard time changing its spots. Also, Miami could have set that zero tolerance standard immediately post the Peach Bowl, but then Coker was too concerned with saving his skinny ass by throwing all manner of assistant coaches under the bus.
Regardless, if there is another (or repeated) instance of this type I expect that Miami could find themselves banned from post-season competition. Hopefully, such a step would be taken by the University itself. To this point though the one other thing that would have sent an absolutely clear message has not been done by the coaches - kicking transgressors of the team. So, I would be very surprised if another instance does not in fact arise.
 
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StadiumDorm;638964; said:
Here's my problem with what you're trying to do right now stthegreat04:

1. You can't defend the actions of players like Meriweather, Reddick, and others that were involved in stomping and actions of a nature not in self defense. This is irregardless of prior events. You simply can't defend it. And if you try, you lose all credibility.

2. You can't defend the Miami players dancing on the logo at Louisville. It's the antithesis of class, and you lose credibility if you try to argue otherwise. But you can commend the Louisville players for not acting like Miami players in starting a big fight over it.


And I had a problem with Robert Reynolds and the Wisky/OSU logo crap as well. But the difference right now seems to be that Ohio State fans almost uniformly condemn those actions, and you won't see any attempt to defend what took place. But Miami is in, as illustrated above, DENIAL.

1. already stated that i was not defending them in that situation...
2. never said i was defending that... dont put words in my mouth when i already clearly state i wasn't defending them for that
 
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stthegreat04;638980; said:
1. already stated that i was not defending them in that situation...
2. never said i was defending that... dont put words in my mouth when i already clearly state i wasn't defending them for that
Then what are you here to defend? That not everyone on the team is a thug?

The team has a history of poor behavior, and has a pattern of starting fights. In return, the team only suspends one player, and makes the others sit out of their cupcake matchup this weekend.

It is mindboggling that your fanbase defends this wildly embarrassing event. Combine that with the TV announcer, extremely light punishments, and history of classless behavior by a lot of Miami players (just in the past 12 months)... and I really don't know why you're arguing.
 
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stthegreat04;638990; said:
im here to defend that the team is not a thug that certain individuals on the team are... its unfair to the whole team to try and say that everyone is a thug... but im done its not that serious anyway...
agreed. however, ...



Do not use those terms when talking about members of the Ohio State Football Team. --DBB
 
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stthegreat04;638990; said:
im here to defend that the team is not a thug that certain individuals on the team are... its unfair to the whole team to try and say that everyone is a thug... but im done its not that serious anyway...

I think you are right to move on. You have made your point and, while I don't agree, I think we all understand where you stand and appreciate that you have wanted to stand up for a team of which you think highly. Let's hope that they live up to your expectations.
 
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Opinions from Around the USA -1 - San Diego

Some column inches on the battle of Dade County from San Diego

Miami prez goes light; alumni tails wag the dog

UNION-TRIBUNEOctober 20, 2006
miami.jpg

Associated Press​
Miami and Florida International University brought new meaning to the phrase "backyard brawl" last Saturday.
nick_canepa.gif
Florida International University? Never heard of it. The University of Miami? Definitely heard of its TV show ? ?CSI: UMiami.? So, the unknown cut itself off at the knees. The known gave its diamond bracelet a love tap. Figures.Much has been made out of Saturday's incendiary brawl during the UM-FIU football game, but we know one thing: The punishment Miami inflicted on itself didn't draw blood.
FIU, which has a history of nothing, let alone mayhem, kicked two of its perpetrators off the team and suspended 16 others indefinitely. UM, which has a history of everything from great football to thuggery to arrests to incarcerations to lots of community service, suspended 12 players for one game, and another (Anthony Reddick) indefinitely for swinging his helmet as if it were the jawbone of an ass.
Miami next plays at lowly Duke. Its scout team can beat Duke. If this is discipline, so is a bubble bath.
UM President Donna Shalala, fist shaking, this week embarrassed herself, announcing she will not throw her students under the bus. If she were running a normal university, I could buy it. But Miami has a history of this sort of thing, has for better than 20 years, when it coincidentally happened to get good in football.
The sentence wasn't enough. But remember, UM's a football school, and football pays bills. Alums eat football. Wonder what would have happened if the diving team brawled in the shallow end?
If I presided at Miami ? out of the question (it would mean having to live there) ? UM's win over FIU would be erased, as would the remainder of the season. If nothing else, UM should forfeit one home game, damaging its wallet. Sitting a baker's dozen for pathetic Duke doesn't cut it.
Two years ago, there was a similar incident during the final game of the regular season between Clemson and South Carolina. Both schools were bowl-eligible. Their administrations ruled out postseason play. That's punctuating your sentence.
Duke? Duke? Please.
Shalala should shut down the program through next year. What she's doing ? even if she were to demolish 2006 ? isn't enough to cleanse the dirty intestines of Miami's image. The only way that will happen is to start fresh, with fish and roughage. If you keep coach Larry Coker, make him mop the floors with a disinfectant.
Shalala now has instituted a zero-tolerance policy. Fight and you're gone. Sounds good, but she doesn't play the game.
?Zero tolerance,? San Diego State coach Chuck Long says. ?Now that's real strong.?
Too strong, considering the sport. Football is violent. Players fight during practice, during games, in locker rooms. Fighting isn't the problem. Few players get hurt fighting. What happened Saturday wasn't a fight.
Are we, the media, making too big a deal out of it? Is this merely our flavor of the week? No. Universities are educational places, not mud-fighting pits. It was out of control. It was homely. And those in charge look as ridiculous as the athletes involved. This is the equivalent of bad parenting.
?I do have a grip on this program,? Coker said. ?Don't ever doubt that.?
Well, if Coker has a grip, his hands are smeared with Vaseline. Didn't Coker's kids brawl with LSU before last year's Peach Bowl? Didn't Coker's kids stomp on Louisville's logo a few weeks back? This was as surprising as sunset. Who was involved? Miami? Don't kid a kidder.
Teddy Roosevelt, no stranger to violence, was so disgusted with football he made it safer. If TR had seen this, he wouldn't have even tried to save the game.
There could have been serious injury here. If it happened on the street, where district attorneys aren't always as forgiving as university presidents, I doubt Duke would have entered the picture.
The NFL, which equates drooping socks with extortion, doesn't look softly at such violence. Not long ago, Tennessee's Albert Haynesworth was suspended five games for stomping on a player's head. Five NFL games, without pay, is punishment. But it still wasn't harsh enough, although Shalala probably would have given Haynesworth a car.
?I don't know if the punishment fits the crime, because I don't know the whole story,? says Long, who this season slapped a two-game suspension on a pair of his players for fighting. ?But it didn't look good.
?I felt we had to suspend our players for two games ? one more than we had to. This is something we talk about all the time.?
Long, in fact, has taken it a step further.
?You can talk about it, but we try to put it into action,? he says. ?I try to get some of our scout-team guys to antagonize some of our first-team guys in practice. If they retaliate, they have to sit out practice or do some other kind of punishment. We've done more and more of it the last few weeks. You don't retaliate. I want a class program here.?
So should Donna Shalala. She's a former U.S. secretary of education. So educate, already. Apples are for teachers, not student-athletes.
 
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Opinions from Around the USA - 2 - Chicago

Some column inches on the battle of Dade County from Chicago

Miami shame: Thugs don't need hugs

October 20, 2006
BY RICK TELANDER Sun-Times Columnist
The returns still are coming in from the Miami-Florida International football brawl Saturday, but for now the tally stands at a total of 31 players suspended or dismissed from both teams. After watching the tape of the vicious brawl, again and again, I can't help wondering where the criminal charges are, why somebody from the thugfest -- maybe a bunch of somebodies -- isn't in jail.
After all, former Hurricanes player-turned-TV analyst Lamar Thomas was swiftly fired after he merely spoke about the mayhem as it was going on, saying a little too eagerly that he was almost ready to take the elevator down and join the brawl.
''You don't come into the OB [Orange Bowl] talkin' smack, not in our house,'' said Thomas, who offered this solution: ''Why don't they just meet outside in the tunnel after the ballgame and get it on some more?''
There's no doubt part of the soft landing for the players -- and their coaches -- can be blamed on Dallas Cowboys center Andre Gurode, who inexplicably refused to bring charges against Tennessee Titans defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth recently after Haynesworth danced with his cleats on Gurode's helmet-less face to the tune of 30 stitches.
Precedents matter.
When you see what some of the Miami players were doing in the brawl, the thing that comes to mind is not a sports fight, but a beatdown.
You think of a back-alley mugging.
You think of cowardice and rioting.
You think of mobs.
You think of the popular underground videos going around of authentic street beatings, of surveillance cameras catching thugs trying and sometimes succeeding in killing victims.
Miami safety Brandon Merriweather was very active in the brawl, stomping on downed FIU players with his cleats, among other things.
In old-time fights, men stood and fought each other one-on-one with their fists or wrestled one another to the ground. If it was wrong, there was still a certain code to the nastiness.
Merriweather's actions had no code except to maim or kill.
''As a team captain, I have come to expect more from myself,'' Merriweather wrote in an apology.
Team captain. Wow.

Blame starts at the top
And so we are left to wonder about the state of Miami football and the state of NCAA big-time revenue-producing football generally. Yes, Florida International figures in here somehow, but, be honest: Had you ever heard of the school before this?
Miami has won more national titles in the last quarter-century (four) than any other university. It has won them under four different coaches, and current coach Larry Coker is the most clueless of them all.
''I think this will affect the image of our program,'' Coker said post-fight, ''but in a very positive way.''
What?
There is a wealth of football talent in the high schools of South Florida, and Coker has seen fit to ride that talent to his own national title in 2001. But his control of his charges -- like the control of former Miami national-championship coaches Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson and Dennis Erickson -- seems at times nonexistent.
Just as the management of the school seems to have no control, or rather, to enjoy the fruits of victory that comes from an out-of-control program.
Maybe this is just thug life -- as tattooed on iconic and murdered rapper Tupac Shakur's belly -- infiltrating America's educational and entertainment system with the technical assistance of the computer era.
Maybe it had to happen, the gangster world and the sports world melding.
But it has been building, and see-no-evil apologists such as Miami president Donna Shalala -- formerly of the Clinton administration, formerly coach Barry Alvarez's landlord at the University of Wisconsin -- are part of the problem.

'Do that again and you're grounded'
''We will not throw any student under the bus for instant restoration of our image or reputation,'' Shalala said. ''I will not eliminate their participation at the university. I will not take away their scholarships.'' She added that Miami now has a ''new standard,'' that says, ''Do this again, and you're off the team.''
My goodness. Maybe Shalala will be giving all the fellows apples before bedtime, too.
Let me tell you about Miami's past.
In 1984, I wrote a story for Sports Illustrated about the Canes' stellar offensive line. In the accompanying photo, two of the five linemen are giving the the camera the finger.
In 1986 I wrote about star Miami linebacker George Mira Jr., not long after he had been arrested by campus police and charged with disorderly conduct, battery on a police officer, assault, fleeing a police officer and possession of steroids without a prescription.
In a 1995 cover story, after many more NCAA violations and legal offenses by players, Sports Illustrated blared in bold type, ''WHY THE UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI SHOULD DROP FOOTBALL.''
The Hurricanes got into a postgame fight with LSU last December at the Peach Bowl, and they started a near-brawl before this year's Louisville game by stomping on the Cardinals' midfield logo.
No, this is not new territory for Miami, nor for the NCAA football money machine that now gives us $3million coaches and games virtually every night of the week in lieu of integrity, education and honor.
Hell, there was even a brawl last week at the end of the delicate Dartmouth-Holy Cross game.
Thug life. Live it.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/canepa/20061020-9999-1s20canepa.html
 
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Bucks on par with Miami?

So some wise guy in Florida thinks that:
1) Ohio State is held up as an exlemplary program nationwide (Of course I think so, but every other team's fans seem to think we are a program of thugs - in my experience)
2) That Miami (FL) is no worse than tOSU in regards to the program being "out of control"
3) That the refs should be to blame for the fight

I do partially agree with #3, because they should throw flags for flagrant fouls, but its still no excuse for stomping on a kid with your cleats on. Anyway, sorry if this has already been talked about....


http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_02478.shtml

A Different Perspective: Blame The Zebra's
by Les Mirabeau,
published on Oct 21, 2006

haggerty.jpg
I must confess I?ve always loved the University of Miami Hurricanes. Having made that confession, I must also say that the recent irresponsible, hysterical, dooms-day comments of various sports commentators concerning the brawl at the University of Miami?s Orange Bowl are unfair and biased.
The commentators overlook the people who should shoulder some of the blame for allowing this sad terrible episode to occur. Namely are the game officials. The FIU-Miami game officials allowed numerous unsportsmanlike fouls to continually occur. Every team deserves protection from out of control players seeking to injure others but that was clearly not happening in this game.
I saw a game in which numerous personal fouls committed by FIU players, many of them flagrant, finally leading up to the one where two FIU players started the brawl by punching, body-slamming the UM extra point holder #16 Perrilli! Quite simply, the flagrant foul perpetrators should have been immediately thrown out of the game when they did their deeds. This would have stopped all the nonsense. But they weren?t and this emboldened FIU while slowly enraging Miami?s fans and players. Up to the point of the body slam, Miami?s players were a model of decorum; they had not retaliated and maintained their composure despite the cheap shots. This summary is for those who wondered why FIU meted out harsher punishments than Miami did for their players.
Imagine if it were Grambling vs. Ohio State instead of FIU and Miami. I think that the sports casters would immediately have focused on the game officials and only mildly reacted or defended Ohio State?s wrong headed response to defend their unprotected holder. The post game focus would be on the incompetent officials who lost control of the game thereby creating a dangerous situation. Tell me I?m lying!
But back to reality, I?m not justifying the fighting. But people need to understand the background so that they know this brawl didn?t just suddenly break out for no reason out of the blue. Anyone who saw the game cannot condone what occurred. Wrong is simply Wrong. So for that, Miami has selected appropriate punishments for their transgressors. Most were given one game suspensions and Anthony Reddick (who swung the helmet) was suspended indefinitely. I think that is more than fair.
Where I diverge from the MOB is that I can see the hidden agenda?s of these sportscasters and that agenda is not to be fair. When I hear TV commentators and columnists from around the country dredged up 20-year-old stories about the Hurricanes like; the Hurricanes wore Army fatigues to the Fiesta Bowl; Or how in the past they humiliated Texas in the Cotton Bowl 46-3 in 1991 while getting 202 yds in penalties; playing a series with Notre Dame that the media christened ?the Convicts vs. the Catholics?; increasing complaints of end zone dances, and flying high fives after scores; their probation period in the mid nineties; and then dumping all of these past antics on UM?s current clean low key program.
In addition to the one game suspensions of the players, they also call for the mass firings of UM President Donna Shalala, A.D. Paul Dee and Coach Larry Coker, excommunication of the players involved from the school and all future athletics, criminal charges, abolishment the entire UM football program, taking away all of their TV?s, GameBoys and pets etc. Well, I added that last one. Nevertheless, these other statements are contrived, over the top, ugly, bigoted and it shows their bias.
Did these commentators call for the dismantling of the South Carolina and Clemson programs when they had their ugly brawl in 2004? What about the recent ugly Dartmouth ?Holy Cross on field football team brawl that required state police to end it that occurred the same day? Oh it was just guys feeling their oats! My God Les, they are just boys letting off a little steam! Ol JimBob didn?t really mean to hit that other guy with his helmet as many of the players on both the Holy Cross and Dartmouth teams did during that fracas. But that?s different Les. Well it is ?Different? isn?t it?
I have read numerous columns where the Miami players are called animals, criminals, thugs and worst. But anyone that visits the University of Miami website or knows these players individually can easily see that they are not anything approaching that. All are near or well ahead of their classes on the road to graduation. I have never heard any white athletes called these names regardless of how improper his actions were. He?s just a little misguided that?s all. So that is why Bill Romanowski for them is intense and UM players are thugs. The national media never even thought of even calling any of those involved with the possible actions of the Duke lacrosse team these names and would not even think of doing so even if they were found guilty!
The Miami coaches, athletic director and University President have worked very hard to improve the program to the point where the University of Miami is a class program with one of the highest graduation rates in the NCAA. The commentators chose to focus on a very outdated image of UM. The facts are that there were 85 Hurricane players on the field last Saturday, only 13 of them got involved and only a few of those 13 did those very stupid things. For that they are being punished by the University of Miami with punishments that were measured and sufficient for the actions they displayed.
So what is the source of all of this venom against Miami? To understand it you have to go back in history. Miami was founded only in 1925 as a private institution. 1st Reason they hate Miami is that it was the first school in the South to play black athletes. For the 2nd reason you have to go back to the 80's when the Miami Hurricanes out of nowhere suddenly knocked down the NCAA front door and barged uninvited and unexpected into the exclusive Top 10 party where normally Alabama, Ohio State, USC, Penn State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, USC and Texas ruled.
Suddenly there was this new dark unknown confident power beating the snot out of everyone and showing lots of unrestrained joy as they did it. Miami became the dominate program in the country. The Hurricanes blended speed, passion and attitude with a passing offense and a dominating attacking defense. College football was caught flat footed and the sports establishment hated them for it. Miami stormed in and won an unprecedented five National Championships in 18 years. in 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991 and 2001. Between 1983 and 1991 Miami won exactly half of the national championships! Adding insult to injury, this was a school founded in 1925 of only 15,000 very diverse student body. Previously unknown Miami won these national championships with a much smaller sports budget, smaller fan base, smaller alumni base, very little history and inferior facilities.
Miami, in the media and college football establishment's mind, was like a darker brasher inner city Tiger Woods suddenly appearing at the country club. Envy turned into downright hatred as Miami's domination continued. In their mind, only until Miami's program is destroyed will they be happy in revenge for changing the status quo, crashing and winning their events, becoming the life of the party, and getting their dates attention by beating them at their own game at their country club.
So if you can?t beat em, smear em! And smear them they did and continue to do with a vengeance. Winning and Miami?s reliance on inner city black athletes is the real basis for the bias and hatred towards the program. They also have the nerve to graduate them. Miami consistently has had top 25 graduation rates among its peers. These kids are far from being dummies or thugs.
So let?s stop all the sanctimonious B.S. concerning UM. This brawl is so overblown its ridiculous. These sportscasters have another agenda and it?s not fairness. So you want to compare UM with the nations current #1 team? Aren't the Buckeyes a model institution according to these commentators? Well let?s review player conduct over a short period of time under their coach who is renowned for his control of the nation?s #1 team and compare it with what you?ve heard about Miami recently;
Source:
http://www.centralohio.com/ohiostate/stories/20050526/football/
2145095.html

Originally published Thursday, May 26, 2005
COLUMBUS (AP) -- Players and coaches who have had legal or disciplinary problems during Jim Tressel's tenure as Ohio State's head coach (does not include common traffic offenses):
May 21, 2005--Defensive lineman Tim Schafer is charged with disorderly conduct after police twice had to break up early-morning fights between him and another man. The 6-foot-5, 295-pound Schafer, who started five games as an offensive lineman last season, and the 5-8, 200-pound other man were both bloody, had bite marks and smelled of alcohol.
May 18, 2005--Redshirt freshman running back Erik Haw was cited after a university police officer said he saw him smoking a marijuana cigarette while standing outside a dormitory. Haw, expected to compete for the starting tailback job, faces a court appearance on Friday in Franklin County Municipal Court. Ohio State officials said he would enter a drug education program and undergo frequent testing.
May 11, 2005--Kicker Jonathan Skeete is charged with marijuana trafficking. Skeete, who was not expected to play for the Buckeyes, was suspended from the team. He was bound over to a grand jury and was later released from jail on $10,000 bond.
Feb. 16, 2005--Offensive coordinator Jim Bollman is reprimanded by Ohio State for trying to arrange for a car and a loan for a recruit and for getting him a tutor. Tressel also received a letter of admonishment because he is Bollman's supervisor. Ohio State determined that helping the recruit get a tutor for a college entrance exam in 2002 was a secondary NCAA violation. Tressel and his staff were given a reprimand in 2001 for providing a jersey to a prospect.
Dec. 20, 2004--Ohio State suspends starting quarterback Troy Smith from the Alamo Bowl for accepting around $500 from team booster Robert Q. Baker. After a lengthy NCAA investigation, Smith also is forced to make restitution to a charity and sit out the team's 2005 season opener against Miami (Ohio).
Oct. 22, 2004--The all-nude strip club Pure Platinum files a complaint against Ohio State tailback Lydell Ross for passing fake in-house currency at the suburban club a few hours after the team lost its third game in a row the previous Saturday at Iowa. No charges are filed, but Ross is suspended from the team for the Indiana game and is dropped on the depth chart behind freshman Tony Pittman.
May 1, 2004--Sophomore backups Louis Irizarry and Ira Guilford are arrested and charged with robbery after a student is assaulted and his wallet is stolen at 3 a.m. They are held in Franklin County jail through the weekend. Both plead innocent to the robbery charge, with Guilford released after paying a $25,000 bond. Irizarry is held pending a hearing to determine if he had violated his probation from an earlier assault conviction. He later pleads guilty and is given a three-year prison sentence. Guilford is sentenced to two years probation for his role in the robbery, punching the student before Irizarry took the wallet.
Nov. 16, 2003--At 3 a.m. after a win over Purdue and six days before the Michigan game, wide receiver Santonio Holmes and quarterback Troy Smith are charged with misdemeanor disorderly conduct after a fight in a parking lot on campus. A window in a car is kicked out and one woman reported her jaw was broken. At least one other prominent Buckeye is at the scene, but is not charged. Holmes is held out of the starting lineup at Michigan but returns to play most of the game. Holmes also started in the Buckeyes' Fiesta Bowl game. He pleads innocent to the disorderly conduct after the team returns to Columbus. The disorderly conduct charge is dismissed against Holmes on March 30, 2004. Smith is found guilty of the charge.
Oct. 27, 2003--Irizarry is charged with three counts of first-degree misdemeanor assault after three people sustain minor injuries during a fight in a Park Hall dorm room. Irizarry is suspended two days later. He is found guilty of one charge each of assault, negligent assault and disorderly conduct and pays $404 court costs and is put on probation. He is later reinstated to the team and is listed as the second-team tight end on the 2004 spring depth chart before he is suspended indefinitely after the May 1, 2004, arrest.
April 2003--Running back Maurice Clarett reports that a car he has borrowed from a local used-car dealer was broken into and thousands of dollars in cash, CDs, stereo equipment and clothing was stolen. The car was in the parking lot at the Woody Hayes Athletic Center and Clarett calls police from a telephone in Tressel's office. Clarett was later charged with lying to police about the value of the stolen items and is charged with misdemeanor falsification of the police report on the theft. Clarett pleads guilty on Jan. 14, 2004, to the reduced charge of failure to aid a law enforcement officer. He is ordered to pay the maximum fine of $100 and serves no jail time.
Oct. 13, 2002--Linebacker Fred Pagac Jr. is charged with persistent disorderly conduct. Pagac was arrested at 3:45 a.m. after police said he was intoxicated and had a role in a fight involving two women outside a campus-area bar about 12 hours after the Buckeyes' homecoming victory over San Jose State. The police report said an officer told Pagac to stop but he continued to fight. Pagac was suspended for the team's next game at Wisconsin. Pagac pleaded innocent. In December, before the team's national championship game against Miami in the Fiesta Bowl, Pagac was acquitted in a jury trial.
Aug. 17, 2002--Defensive lineman Quinn Pitcock is charged with underage drinking in his hometown of Piqua. He is suspended from the team for the three weeks of preseason workouts, then worked out with the team and is not held out of any games.
Aug. 24, 2002--Flanker Chris Vance, the Buckeyes' second-leading receiver from 2001, is suspended from the team before the season opener for what Tressel called a violation of team policy. Vance was with the team on the sidelines but did not play against Texas Tech.
July 29, 2002--Wide receiver Angelo Chattams is investigated for the alleged theft of a set of golf clubs from a sport utility vehicle in West Carrollton. Prosecutors approve but do not file a theft charge, permitting Chattams to enroll in a program for nonviolent, first-time offenders and avoid a charge.
July 26, 2002--Police find Branden Joe, a sophomore fullback, asleep in a car on a highway ramp near campus. The police report says he refused to take a Breathalyzer test. He was suspended for the three weeks of preseason camp and the team's season opener against Texas Tech, then returns to the team although his playing time is limited by injuries.
April 27, 2002--Linebacker Marco Cooper is arrested hours after the Buckeyes' annual intrasquad scrimmage and charged with felony drug abuse and carrying a concealed weapon in his sports-utility vehicle. Cooper pleads guilty to two charges in November and is put on probation.
March 2, 2002--Tight end Redgie Arden is arrested on a charge of drunken driving in his hometown of Ironton. The redshirt freshman is found guilty and is sentenced to three days in jail and fined. Suspended indefinitely from the team, he does not participate in summer workouts before the 2002 season but is reinstated before the start of the 2002 season and played in 11 games.
Nov. 15, 2001--Quarterback Steve Bellisari is arrested two days before the Illinois game for drunken driving. Tressel suspends the Buckeyes' three-year starter indefinitely and then reinstates him to the team three days later. A senior, he practiced with the team for the Michigan game but did not play, then came off the bench to play most of the team's Outback Bowl loss to South Carolina. He later served a weekend in jail.
March 21, 2001--Cornerback Derek Ross is arrested on charges of driving without a license and providing false information to police, giving an incorrect name when pulled over for speeding. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail. He is suspended from Ohio State's 2001 spring practices, then played most of the 2001 season, leading the Big Ten in interceptions and earning second-team all-conference honors. Left team to make himself available for the NFL draft a year early.
Jan. 18, 2001--Tressel is hired.
Get the picture? This site is not up to date and it does not include transgressions after May 2005 but you do get the picture. Is Miami a program out of control?? Not even close!! And believe me OSU is not even close to being among the worst programs for athletic problems in the NCAA but you wouldn?t know it listening to these jock strap sniffing commentators.
The UM program does not deserve what is happening to it now by the media but its worst if we as African Americans fall into their hype. They are proud to be ranked in the top tier of National Universities by U.S. News and World Report. Unlike most sports programs Miami?s graduation rates is routinely in the higher echelon. Visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Miami if you want to honestly learn about the University of Miami and surf its various external links. What you?ll find is a diverse, well regarded, institution of higher learning. Not a cesspool by any standards
This brawl hysteria is from a lynch mob, pure and simple, searching for the same victim they?ve always feared as usual. Let?s put things in perspective and stop condemning these Miami athletes and their University beyond the facts. They did what they did and they were wrong. Everyone involved to a man has apologized and accepted their punishment. It?s over? nothing else to see here. I for one will not join this lynch mob and I?m getting tired of Miami being the media?s whipping boy. University of Miami's President Dr. Shalala (who served as President Clinton?s Secretary of Health and Human Services, and is nobody?s fool) is correct. Her actions have been measured and the punishments appropriate. After the punishments are served, She's said that she "will not throw these players under the bus just to save our image? and to please these idiots whose goal is not fairness but for Miami?s destruction. For that I am very proud of her.

Photo?s from http://www.sunsentinel.com/sports/college/hurricanes/
 
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Opinions from Around the USA - 3 - Falls Church

Once more into the breach dear thugs! Cry Coker and Donna Shalala!
From Falls Church VA

Picking Splinters: U Stands for 'Ugly' By Mike Hume Thursday, 19 October 2006
Believe it or not the Redskins? loss to the Tennessee Titans was not the ugliest spectacle on a football field last weekend. That honor goes to the heinous brawl between the University of Miami and Florida International at the Orange Bowl last Saturday, a melee that saw fists, cleats, helmets and even crutches used as weapons.
At what point do we say this is messed up? When do we observe that the University of Miami football program just isn?t working?
Unseemly behavior is not atypical of Miami players ? far from it ? as Comcast Sports Southeast?s Lamar Thomas, a veteran of ?The U? himself, demonstrated with his in-game commentary on the melee.
?Now, that?s what I'm talking about,? Thomas said from his perch in the broadcast booth as order began to be restored. ?You come into our house, you should get your behind kicked. You don't come into the OB* [*That?s the ?Orange Bowl? for the uninitiated] playing that stuff. You?re across the ocean over there. You?re across the city. You can't come over to our place talking noise like that. You?ll get your butt beat. I was about to go down the elevator to get in that thing.?
That?s how Lamar rolls. He keeps it real. Has all his life. In fact, according to Thomas?s rap sheet on Deadspin.com, when Thomas?s pregnant fianc?e was getting on his nerves, he assaulted her with a deadly weapon. He later did another stint in the slammer for choking his fianc?e in front of his six-month-old son.
Thomas, who has since been fired by Comcast, is just another example of why I don?t believe the short-sighted, Tom Osborne argument that football is helping these troubled youths. Football did not help former Ohio State back Maurice Clarett, who will be in prison for at least the next three-and-a-half years. Nor did it help Lawrence Phillips, Osborne?s former Nebraska running back, who dragged his former girlfriend down a flight of steps by her hair. Presently Phillips is facing 20 years behind bars as he awaits sentencing for driving his car into three teenagers after a dispute in a pickup football game.
On the other hand, while the structure of their respective football programs did not help these individuals, Clarett and Phillips did help their teams win a national championship, and with it, millions of dollars in licensing, ticket sales and bowl game-related revenues.
Even if football programs aren?t outright exploiting these kids, they are not helping them. Nevertheless the pattern, particularly at Miami, is the same. A player steps out of line, but the coach and the program, because they?re such altruistic types, continue to support their player ? at least until such a stance becomes completely untenable due to pressure, usually applied by the media.
Still, it was mind boggling to hear Miami Head Coach Larry Coker?s post-game statements Saturday: ?I think that it will affect the image of our program greatly, but in a positive way. I think that when they see the video they will be impressed with our players.? Impressed with what exactly, Larry? The impressive force with which your players can swing a helmet?
To be fair, Coker later said that he overstated his players? roles as peacemakers during the fracas, but that?s still missing the point. He should have been contrite and apologetic and said simply and unequivocally that brawling has no place in the game of football and that he and his staff will be the ones handing out severe punishments to those involved.
The cycle of off-field mischief and on-field antics continues to perpetuate itself thanks, in part, to enabling coaches like Coker and administrations like Miami?s that believe the situation is either out of their hands or not as bad as it seems. After the player suspensions were doled out, the University said that the discipline handed down by the Atlantic Coast Conference was punishment enough. Wrong.
This is not a problem that can be cured by suspensions and slaps on the wrist. The problem begins and ends with the kind of athletes that the University of Miami allows onto its campus.
In a Sept. 2005 Associated Press article, University of Miami President Donna Shalala said she believes sport to be important because ?It reflects the standards of the university, its integrity and its commitment to ethical behavior.? If she expects anyone to ever read that statement without laughing, then she and the board of trustees must make it clear that behavior such as this will not be tolerated.
All of these ?I feel so bad about what happened? phone calls to trustees and University presidents are weak. Accepting short suspensions as an effective form of punishment is weak. If Shalala ever meant what she said in September of 2005, she ought to gut the Miami football program and start over.
At this time, the University of Miami has an opportunity. It has an opportunity to become a leader in collegiate athletics and make a statement that developing student athletes is about more than pursuing national championships and polishing NFL resumes. It can make that statement by reforming its recruiting practices and raising its bar for admission.
It?s no secret that Miami has tried to rid itself of the thuggish image that has followed its football program, and put an end to those awkward, apologetic phone calls. However, if Shalala and the board of trustees don?t find the guts to try to truly fix this problem, then they?ll really have something to be embarrassed about.
 
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