LSU/Refs cheating?

[matcar]

It's like we weren't even watching the same video. Agree to disagree.

Yes, I believe I said that a few posts ago. I don't believe it was intentional. If I'm proven wrong, I'd be glad to admit it, but I just don't think he was trying to nail that kid, but rather just reacted.

 

[jwinslow]

Yes, I believe I said that a few posts ago. I don't believe it was intentional. If I'm proven wrong, I'd be glad to admit it, but I just don't think he was trying to nail that kid, but rather just reacted.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAfiiQEyzjw]YouTube - Referee Nails USC QB - Referee Tackles USC QB - South Carolina vs. LSU Ref Forearm Shiver - LSU vs. USC referee - Referee tackle LSU vs. USC - 19 october 2008 - South Carolina vs. LSU Ref Forearm Shiver - Referee Tackles Player[/ame]

He even stares over him after the hit. Stick with the 'natural instincts' angle, because he went for contact.

 

[matcar]

matcar, what kind of behavior from a referee would be grounds for dismissal?

What if he got caught up in the shoving and decked a player?
What good comes from complaining when it's obvious they won't do anything about it anyway?
Speak for yourself.
Twice. So as long as they rotate, referees can be taking down players every week. :pHe DIRECTLY ended the play with an intentional, forward-driving hit.

Actual cheating or repeated poor performance is grounds for dismissal.

What good comes of it? I dunno but he's never had a problem with it before and yet he completely bypasses it this time.

I apologize for assuming that others were OK...I mean the player, coaches, and everyone involved has moved on, but here in the blogosphere, I guess there's some pain...whatever. I stand by my comment, we're all ok here. If you're not, then obviously you're welcome to take up your case with the SEC, the NCAA, or the Supreme Court. Or, better yet, you could boycott all SEC games.

Other calls have directly ended plays that ended in touchdowns...via poor calls.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Yes, I believe I said that a few posts ago. I don't believe it was intentional. If I'm proven wrong, I'd be glad to admit it, but I just don't think he was trying to nail that kid, but rather just reacted.

Sorry to keep going, but this is what keeps running through my head.

To me, a "reaction" doesn't constitute a ref stalking a QB like his prey for a good four seconds. Had he been looking elswhere and then confronted with a guy in pads running directly at him, then fine. But to strafe down the line and have a flashback to his playing days, imo, isn't a reaction. It's a deliberate action.

I promise I'm done now.

 

[jwinslow]

You didn't answer my question. If he decked a player during some shoving, is that grounds for dismissal?

I stand by my comment, we're all ok here. If you're not, then obviously you're welcome to take up your case with the SEC, the NCAA, or the Supreme Court. Or, better yet, you could boycott all SEC games.

That's like saying everyone else is ok with the rampant cheating in the NCAA, so everything is ok, and I can take it up with the higher ups... as though that somehow refutes the problem.

 

[matcar]

YouTube - Referee Nails USC QB - Referee Tackles USC QB - South Carolina vs. LSU Ref Forearm Shiver - LSU vs. USC referee - Referee tackle LSU vs. USC - 19 october 2008 - South Carolina vs. LSU Ref Forearm Shiver - Referee Tackles Player

He even stares over him after the hit. Stick with the 'natural instincts' angle, because he went for contact.

I've watched the play many times...I'm OK with my statements. I'll stick with them.

We disagree...I'm OK with that.

If you believe he intended to do this and had some sort of motive...I'm OK with that, but I disagree. If you believe that he didn't mean to but nonetheless should be fired, I also disagree.

 

[jwinslow]

Should he be fined? Suspended from a game? Or just told "please don't tackle our players" and that's the end of it?

I've watched the play many times...I'm OK with my statements. I'll stick with them.

I don't see how following a player out into space, strafing along with him, squaring up as he cuts and lunging forward thru him is reacting... unless you mean reacting like he did as a player.

 

[matcar]

You didn't answer my question. If he decked a player during some shoving, is that grounds for dismissal?That's like saying everyone else is ok with the rampant cheating in the NCAA, so everything is ok, and I can take it up with the higher ups... as though that somehow refutes the problem.

I don't see how the two examples are similar. If the guy is shoving someone with intention, there's a problem, if not, then I don't see it. What if a guy has his back to a play and whips around quickly and his fist flies into the face of another guy? Am I going to fire him for that? No, same thing here. If the guy wanted to take him down, there's a problem, otherwise, it's settled.

No one is OK with cheating, it's just that none of the parties involved think there was any.

 

[Nutriaitch]

Even the coach of the team who got "jobbed" on the play doesn't see it...and he's one known for making a case when there's one to be made. I think we're all OK here.

I still think SEC officiating needs to be looked at by someone from the outside of the conference. Questionable shit has been going on for quite a while, so I'm a lot more sceptical than some of y'all seem to be.

And like I said, the most disturbing part of it all is that the SEC ALWAYS sides with and defends the refs.

Another example (that benefitted us):
LSU/Bama - '02

Bama punts to LSU.
Bama player blocked into LSU return guy, causing him to muff.
Ball rolls back inside the 10 yard line where LSU clearly recovers (clearly meaning no one else was anywhere near the ball when he fell on it).

Referees initially call it a penalty, but then pick up the flag since the guy was blocked into contact (right call). First and Goal ALABAMA?!!?

Crowd goes apeshit!! Bama hurries to the line, LSU calls a timeout before play can be ran. Refs congregate on field, and LSU players surround the refs pointing at the video screen in South endzone (this is BEFORE replay existed) showing the play over and over.

Refs overturn the call based on WATCHING THE REPLAY screen. SEC head of officials was at Death Valley that night, and saw the whole thing transpire. They saw no wrongdoing on the part of the refs, and decided not to dicipline any of them.

Sure, they got it right, but they used replay when it wasn't allowed to arrive at the decision. And the SEC said that was OK.

I'm fairly confident that the next time something "fishy" happens, the SEC will once again defend the refs involved.

 

[matcar]

Should he be fined? Suspended from a game? Or just told "please don't tackle our players" and that's the end of it?I don't see how following a player out into space, strafing along with him, squaring up as he cuts and lunging forward thru him is reacting... unless you mean reacting like he did as a player.

I would think that he would be graded on his performance and that it would grade out poorly because of items like that. I don't know what penalties ensue.

And yes, my position all along is that his mental instincts might have caused him to react as he did as a player. I know how it can happen...once again because I did something stupid against my own team not long ago. I'm not saying that it's not a mistake and that it shouldn't go without discipline, I'm just saying that IMO, it was a move he made (perhaps out of a need to make a "defensive" move) and he reacted as he might have as a player. And I'm saying that considering that he's never been known to do that before, that I'm willing to cut him some slack and would definitely not ask for his job. So I don't believe this is some sort of cheating/cover-up etc. Call me naive all you want...

 

[Nutriaitch]

If the guy wanted to take him down, there's a problem, otherwise, it's settled.

I don't know what was going through his head, but it sure looks like he was trying to take the guy out.

I'm actually now thankful that SC scored just a couple plays later, because we would have NEVER heard the end of his one.

 

[billmac91]

I think the ref had a beef with Garcia...I haven't seen the play in question (leading up to his hit on Garcia), but from what was said, the official was used as a pick, and the ball came close to him.

If the guy is a headcase, maybe he was [censored]ed about that play.

Who remembers the MLB umpire who was hit by a 95 MPH fastball b/c the pitcher crossed his catcher up? The rest of the at bat, the umpire refused to call a strike in payback for the pitch. The batter actually just stood in the box as 2 or 3 pitches right down the middle of the plate were called balls. Sometimes, as ridiculous as it seems, these guys lose themselves and do stupid things.

It was 100% intentional, why he did it is debateable. He should be suspended, probably not fired, IMO. The SEC claiming it was self-defense if further proof they are a ridiculous conference that spits in the face of logical people. They could honestly care less.

 

[matcar]

I've enjoyed the discussion depsite our disagreements...

I've got to put the kids to bed so I'm done...feel free blast me for my stupidity without retort now...

Edit...

Go Bucks!

 

[Nutriaitch]

So I don't believe this is some sort of cheating/cover-up etc. Call me naive all you want...

I don't think it was cheating or a cover-up. Nor do I think the guy was interested in "helping" one team or the other.

However, I do think the hit was intentional. I think for whatever reason, this guy began thinking as a player instead of as a ref about halfway through that play. To me, this is inexcusable.

Missing a call is one thing. People make mistakes, miss things in full speed that we see in slow-mo replay, etc. But it is these guys job to NOT be a part of the play. This guy moved into the play and made a hit. He should be fired, regardless of his previous record. Some 1st offense earn you no shot at a 2nd offense.

 

[billmac91]

I don't think it was cheating or a cover-up. Nor do I think the guy was interested in "helping" one team or the other.

However, I do think the hit was intentional. I think for whatever reason, this guy began thinking as a player instead of as a ref about halfway through that play. To me, this is inexcusable.

Missing a call is one thing. People make mistakes, miss things in full speed that we see in slow-mo replay, etc. But it is these guys job to NOT be a part of the play. This guy moved into the play and made a hit. He should be fired, regardless of his previous record. Some 1st offense earn you no shot at a 2nd offense.

Nutri, I heard that same official was used as a pick, and he appeared upset about it. Did you see that?