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Losing Early, Now What Needs to Happen - 2010 Chaos Theory

BlufftonBuckeye;1799309; said:
Also, don't think that an impressive win against Iowa will allow us to jump Wisky, we almost certainly need a loss to get past them. There is almost no way the humans would bump tOSU past Wisky without something major happening due to the H2H loss. Maybe if the computers all of the sudden switched in our favor, but like the previous poster said, thats contingent on teams like Miami, Illinois and/or Iowa to be ranked at the end of the season. If we decimate Iowa and they drop from the rankings, ala' Miami earlier this season, the computers will be hating again.

Basically, if Wisky/tOSU both finish with a single loss, Wisky will be getting the love because of that primetime win. Ugh.

Anyone else feel like, outside of winning out, Miami could hold the key? If they win out and are in the top 10, thats going to end up looking like a great win.

We were ahead of Wisky in the coaches poll and harris poll after the loss and they jumped us this week after beating Iowa. Voters vote on what you have done for me lately. A big win over Iowa in week 11 combined with the OSU loss to Wisky fading into past memory could vault us past Wisky in both Human polls. MSU losing would hurt Wisky in the 'puters as well.
 
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BlufftonBuckeye;1799309; said:
. Maybe if the computers all of the sudden switched in our favor, but like the previous poster said, thats contingent on teams like Miami, Illinois and/or Iowa to be ranked at the end of the season. If we decimate Iowa and they drop from the rankings, ala' Miami earlier this season, the computers will be hating again.

I don't think the computers actually care about rankings when looking at SoS. It's about who Iowa has beaten and what the records of their opponents are. Anyway it wouldn't effect tOSU in any way it didn't effect Wiscy or MSU. Playing Iowa in the computers should only help our SoS because they are a strong team that is working for Wiscy in the computers right now, but not for us because we haven't played yet.
 
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JBaney45;1799322; said:
I don't think the computers actually care about rankings when looking at SoS. It's about who Iowa has beaten and what the records of their opponents are. Anyway it wouldn't effect tOSU in any way it didn't effect Wiscy or MSU. Playing Iowa in the computers should only help our SoS because they are a strong team that is working for Wiscy in the computers right now, but not for us because we haven't played yet.

They do in one regard.... top 10 of BCS. If there is a victory over a team and that team's final rank is in the BCS top ten.... it is huge.
 
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NateG;1799334; said:
They do in one regard.... top 10 of BCS. If there is a victory over a team and that team's final rank is in the BCS top ten.... it is huge.

Well it would be near impossible for Iowa to finish there regardless with 3 losses assuming they are the ones that knock off Sparty and we beat them
 
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JBaney45;1799339; said:
Well it would be near impossible for Iowa to finish there regardless with 3 losses assuming they are the ones that knock off Sparty and we beat them

I just looked at each comp breakdown and there are a couple that factor in top 50 and top 25 and top 30... Cryami can make the top 10 and Iowa can be in the top 15. scUM, Illinois and State Penn can all end easily in the top 50 and possibly in the top 25-30. We can get help.
 
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Tlangs;1799321; said:
We were ahead of Wisky in the coaches poll and harris poll after the loss and they jumped us this week after beating Iowa. Voters vote on what you have done for me lately. A big win over Iowa in week 11 combined with the OSU loss to Wisky fading into past memory could vault us past Wisky in both Human polls. MSU losing would hurt Wisky in the 'puters as well.


But that was before Wisky went on the road and beat Iowa.

I understand we maintained our ranking ahead of them the week following the loss, but the fact that they snuck out a win against Iowa and we annihilated Purdue, yet they jump us shows that the voters wanted any reason to put them ahead.

I'm not saying its impossible, or that I have some sort of inside info, but given the recent emphasis on H2H and the media perception of the Bucks, if we both win out I see Wisky ranked above tOSU by a single spot.

Which honestly makes sense, both teams played similar schedules, had the same record and Wisky took the H2H.

There's always a chance, like has been said, if OSU trashes the hell out of Iowa... :biggrin:

And I wouldn't be shocked to see Detard lead the upset of Wisky, TP was shredding them all game, no reason to think Detard can't go for over 150-200 again.

Either way, just win baby! :oh:
 
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BlufftonBuckeye;1799366; said:
But that was before Wisky went on the road and beat Iowa.

I understand we maintained our ranking ahead of them the week following the loss, but the fact that they snuck out a win against Iowa and we annihilated Purdue, yet they jump us shows that the voters wanted any reason to put them ahead.

I'm not saying its impossible, or that I have some sort of inside info, but given the recent emphasis on H2H and the media perception of the Bucks, if we both win out I see Wisky ranked above tOSU by a single spot.

The reason they jumped us is because of Iowa's rank and nothing else. If Wisky's win would have been against say State Penn by 1 and they jumped us then you would be right. But the tide will shift if we win in Kinnick in a month. The night debacle at Wisky will be a distant memory. Crap, if we BLOW the doors off Minny, we could jump them this week with them on a bye.
 
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Looking forward, there's a few people making a reasonable argument that if this team wins out, it will still possibly get shut out of the BCS. Let's put this theory to the test, using the following assumptions:

- OSU wins all remaining games
- Voters don't give OSU any "beauty points", regardless of MoV
- Voters don't any more leapfrogging; teams move up in the human polls only when teams above them lose
- There are no upsets. Favored teams in the top 10 win all games they should. I'll definite "favored" as those teams with a higher BCS ranking.

So, my hypothetical worst-case season ends like this:

Auburn vs. Oregon in the MNC.

Boise State as the non-AQ autobid, in the Rose Bowl due to the Rose Bowl agreement.

TCU with a win over Utah head-to-head, preserving the #4 spot, dropping Utah from the top 10, and being only eligible for an at-large bid. Screwed, basically.

MSU would be #5, and outright Big Ten Champs. In the Rose Bowl with an autobid against Boise.

Missouri is at 6th, after somehow surviving playing in Lincoln and in a B12CCG against the same Oklahoma team they just beat. Fiesta autobid.

Alabama loses to Auburn, doesn't play in the SECCCG and drops below OSU.

Utah loses to TCU, drops below OSU.

Oklahoma suffers second loss to Missouri, drops below OSU.

Wisconsin wins out, "ties" for second in the Big Ten with OSU, ranked #7/8 in the BCS, eligible for an at large.

OSU wins out, "ties" for second in the Big Ten with Wisconsin, ranked #7/8 in the BCS, eligible for an at large.

Now, here's where it gets fun. Who is #7 and who is #8? The computers currently have Wisconsin above OSU, but -- OSU has yet to play Iowa and Wisconsin already has. The win over Miami is vastly better than anything on Wisconsin's OOC slate (UNLV, San Jose, Austin Peay and ASU). OSU has already played two of the weaker teams in the B10, Indiana and Purdue, while Wisconsin has them remaining. OSU's schedule going forward looks much tougher, plus OSU's OOC opponents will do more to help than will Wisconsin's. My prediction is that the computers in this "all win out" scenario put OSU ahead of Wisconsin.

So, OSU finishes at #7 in the BCS in a worst-case, we win out and get no help from "chaos theory", and is the highest ranked school from a BCS conference without an automatic bid. Also, in this scenario, the Sugar has two open slots, due to losing the SEC champ to the MNC. Add in an open spot in the Orange and Fiesta, totaling four, with the only other autobid going to the Big East winner, leaving three at large spots.

I like Ohio State's odds of filling one of them, so I think we're in the BCS regardless of whatever else happens if we win out. The theory that we'd miss out on the BCS despite winning out doesn't seem terribly sound to me.
 
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Now for some "Sequential Chaos". Basically, nothing we wanted to happen this past week did, though we were seconds away from an Iowa-Northwestern double gift. If only Kirk Ferentz could manage a damned game clock.

Anyway, as we saw from Chokelahoma's freefall that didn't quite fall far enough, we need teams to lose in a particular sequence. LSU barely dropped past us from sixth, so I am going to use that as a starting point. I'm assuming that a loss this week by a top 5 team doesn't do a thing to help our shot at making the title game, and that we need multiple losses by teams within the 6-10 range to start moving us up and not down.

#10: Wisky, BYE. Hoping to leapfrog them by hammering the hapless Gophers is too much. Figure that they ride up ahead of us until the computers like us better, since we're virtually tied in terms of Harris and Coaches' votes. I'm not worried about eventually passing them, because I think it happens if both teams win out.

#9: Chokelahoma, Colorado: See "Purdue @ Ohio State" for reference. Expect Oklahoma to get lots of love for how they "bounced back". The Sooners are looking at the Bedlam game and the B12 CCG as their toughest games, and play at AtM. Odds are that we'll get some help here, but it will come very late in the season. Ideally, they'll drop the AtM game, which is much more useful.

#8: Utah, Air Force: The Falcons were no help last week against TCU, and won't be much help this week, either. Status quo. Play TCU the following week, which is their most likely loss.

#7: Alabama, BYE: After the bye, they go to Death Valley at 8pm. Painful as it is, we're all about "Geaux Tigers", because we need Puntbamapunt to lose again as quickly as possible. If things break correctly that weekend, we'll move up despite having a bye.

#6 Missouri, Nebraska: We need bad things to happen to Mizzou NOW. They finish off with a murderer's row of Kansas State, Iowa State and Kansas. Also, we don't want a B12 CCG matchup of two teams ahead of us, due to lack of chaos factor. NU is who we want in the game to take out Chokelahoma. Pelini needs to help his alma mater this week.

#5 MSU, Iowa: Obviously huge. A two score loss would be ideal, as it would almost guarantee that MSU would drop below us in the human polls. If MSU wins, they'll win out, as they have Minnesota, Purdue and Penn State remaining.

If things break our way the next two weeks, we're looking at OSU with a big margin win over Minnesota, then kicking back during the bye week to watch Sequential Chaos ensue. We'd ideally see something like this:

#5 Chokelahoma
#6 Wisky
#7 OSU

At that point, we're waiting for a second Sooner loss, for the computers to push us past the Badgers (after the Iowa game), and then something to happen with #1 and #2 --

An Alabama loss to LSU is important, because we'll be rooting for them against Auburn at the end of the year. Between now and then, War Eagle plays Mississippi, UT Chattanooga and Georgia. Mark them down as three wins.

Oregon finishes out their next six games with five of the six teams directly below them in the Pac-10 standings, or essentially the top half of the conference, save Stanford. None of them look like certain upsets, but all have a puncher's chance, and the Civil War game is in Corvallis. A loss to USC this week doesn't help us much, unless Oregon gets absolutely pasted.

All of that gets us to #3, sitting behind an unbeaten Boise and TCU, at which point we're hoping that if lighting hasn't struck either of them, that the voters and computers revolt, pushing possibly #3 ranked OSU ahead of whichever non-BCS school limped in at #2.

Obviously, lots of bad stuff could still happen. A one loss Oregon or Auburn might not drop far enough; the BCS could just go ahead and have a joke of an MNC game with TCU and Boise; Wisconsin could stay ahead of us; Missouri or MSU could win out; Oklahoma could finish strong and get revenge against the Tigers in a B12 CCG; Bama could run the table and climb back in. This just lays out a map of what we'd need to happen to get within striking distance of the MNC game. I think if we get there, we win -- most likely against a non-BCS school.
 
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Brutus,

Well done, greenies for that. Only thing I disagree with is you saying Oregon losing to USC doesn't really help. Oregons loss to USC would be worse than a Buckeye loss to Wisky, so I would think it could be a big help. Everyone is waiting for Oregon to fuck up, I think if they lose it'll be one of those "here we go again" situations.
 
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BlufftonBuckeye;1799537; said:
Brutus,

Well done, greenies for that. Only thing I disagree with is you saying Oregon losing to USC doesn't really help. Oregons loss to USC would be worse than a Buckeye loss to Wisky, so I would think it could be a big help. Everyone is waiting for Oregon to [censored] up, I think if they lose it'll be one of those "here we go again" situations.

I agree...if oregon loses, we jump them. The frustrating thing is that while we were both undefeated....we were ahead of oklahoma. Now we both have 1 loss and oklahoma is ahead of us. It makes no sense. (the computers are giving stoops a handy at #5 which i don't get.)

Also, as far as Chaos theory goes...there is no way in hell Mizzou wins out.
 
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