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Lance Armstrong

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MililaniBuckeye;2242158; said:
Only if they can prove he doped. Don't take drastic action based solely on hearsay...
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Not hearsay.

Old samples were tested with current technology and tested positive.

Look at all of the racers in those years that finished in the top 10 of the Tour and see how many have admitted to doping? They did a big article on it in "Bicycling" a few months back.

AND Armstong supposedly beat all of those guys "clean."

Come on Mili, you're not that naive are you?
 
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He's not naive but he wants them to prove it with what they had at the time. You can't retroactively punish someone who is not in the sport anymore with a new test that didn't even exist when they raced. That's bullshit. He doped sure bit they failed to sufficient prove it at the time. Let it go or retest every damn rider with the new test and ban them all.
 
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dragurd;2242169; said:
He's not naive but he wants them to prove it with what they had at the time. You can't retroactively punish someone who is not in the sport anymore with a new test that didn't even exist when they raced. That's bullshit. He doped sure bit they failed to sufficient prove it at the time. Let it go or retest every damn rider with the new test and ban them all.
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^-- winner --^
 
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Thump;2242163; said:
Old samples were tested with current technology and tested positive.
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Yeah, samples that are nearly a decade old couldn't possibly have degraded or been tampered with. :roll1:

Thump;2242163; said:
AND Armstong supposedly beat all of those guys "clean."
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He beat all the tests. I'll admit he likely did dope...and I'll now say "So fucking what?" if virtually everyone else was doing so. And if they were, the USADA had best start re-testing all those fuckers and turning them in to the UCI for banning action most pronto-like.

I was in the Hawaii 70.3 Ironman this past June and rode in 40-50 MPH crosswinds and barely made the bike cutoff time...once I was blown completely across the road and almost into a ditch while doing about 25 MPH. From that point on I rode simply for survival and to make it through the ride. Meanwhile, Armstrong obliterated the standing course record despite the horrendous winds...he killed the field. No normal human could've done that.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;2242179; said:
He beat all the tests. I'll admit he likely did dope...and I'll now say "So [censored]ing what?" if virtually everyone else was doing so.
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Maybe I have a problem with reading comprehension, but it sounds like you're saying "everybody was doing it, so it's ok."

Only if they can prove he doped. Don't take drastic action based solely on hearsay...
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First-hand accounts aren't hearsay. There are people that have been sent to prison or death row with less evidence than that which they have on Lance Armstrong.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;2242179; said:
I was in the Hawaii 70.3 Ironman this past June and rode in 40-50 MPH crosswinds and barely made the bike cutoff time...once I was blown completely across the road and almost into a ditch while doing about 25 MPH. From that point on I rode simply for survival and to make it through the ride. Meanwhile, Armstrong obliterated the standing course record despite the horrendous winds...he killed the field. No normal human could've done that.
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How do you know he wasn't doping then?

Were all of you drug-tested?
 
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Oh8ch;2241965; said:
I agree with everything except the self delusion. There was too much at stake not to keep denying and really - nothing to lose.

That he was drug fueled does nothing to reduce my opinion of him as one of the greatest cyclists of all time.

His ability to look the camera in the eye and lie does make me question his fundamental character. In particular testimony about his ruthlessness in preserving the lie is disturbing.

But given all he has done to find a cure I feel strongly that the world is a better place because of Lance Armstrong. Parents may have some splaining to do to help their kids understand the good and the bad of it, but the world has never been as black and white as many of us want to believe.

Pete Rose and Lance Armstrong are still in my scrap book of sports heroes. Role models - not so much. But I started making that distinction a long time ago.
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Agree, there was too much at stake including ego and loss of access to everything winning had given him for him to turn back. Once the lie has progressed to that level I am not sure anyone would be able to turn back.

His is the classic cautionary tale about success not earned the right way. His is also the American success story gone wrong. In our history we have often taken what other countries have done and made it better by innovation and hard work. Lance took what European riders were doing for years as a boutique cottage industry and elevated it to another level in that sport.
 
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Since I mentioned this above, here is a link to the NPR piece.

Lance Armstrong, doping and the culture of cycling

October 23, 2012
Yesterday, cycling?s governing body, the UCI, announced that Lance Armstrong was stripped of his seven straight Tour de France wins from 1999-2005 and permanently banned from the professional sport. These were the recommendations of the United States Anti-Doping Agency, USADA, which released a 1000 page report filled with witness testimony and scientific data alleging that Armstrong led a massive doping program for his pro cycling team. USADA chief executive Travis Tygert said in a statement that Armstrong ?ran the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program the sport has ever seen.? Armstrong, who has denied the charges, announced that he wound not fight the decision and last week, he stepped down as chairman of his charity Livestrong. Today on Radio Times, a conversation about Lance Armstrong, the culture of cycling and doping in sports. We?ll talk to JOE LINDSEY, a writer for Bicycling Magazine who has closely followed Armstrong?s career and the problem of doping in cycling, and CHRIS COOPER, Director of the Centre for Sports and Exercise Science at the University of Essex and author of Run, Swim, Throw, Cheat: The Science Behind Drugs in Sport.


http://whyy.org/cms/radiotimes/2012/10/23/lance-armstrong-doping-and-the-culture-of-cycling/
 
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An open letter by Greg LeMond to the UCI.

"Can anyone help me out? I know this sounds kind of lame but I am not well versed in social marketing. I would like to send a message to everyone that really loves cycling. I do not use twitter and do not have an organized way of getting some of my own "rage" out. I want to tell the world of cycling to please join me in telling Pat McQuaid to resign. I have never seen such an abuse of power in cycling's history - resign Pat if you love cycling. Resign even if you hate the sport.
"Pat McQuaid, you know dam well what has been going on in cycling, and if you want to deny it, then even more reasons why those who love cycling need to demand that you resign. I have a file with what I believe is well documented proof that will exonerate Paul (Kimmage, an Irish cyclist who was a key witness in the USADA case).
"Pat, in my opinion you and Hein are the corrupt part of the sport. I do not want to include everyone at the UCI because I believe that there are many, maybe most that work at the UCI that are dedicated to cycling, they do it out of the love of the sport, but you and your buddy Hein have destroyed the sport.
"Pat, I thought you loved cycling? At one time you did and if you did love cycling please dig deep inside and remember that part of your life - allow cycling to grow and flourish - please! It is time to walk away. Walk away if you love cycling.
"As a reminder I just want to point out that you recently accused me of being the cause of USADA's investigation against Lance Armstrong. Why would you be inclined to go straight to me as the "cause"? Why shoot the messenger every time?
"Every time you do this I get more and more entrenched. I was in your country over the last two weeks and I asked someone that knows you if you were someone that could be rehabilitated. His answer was very quick and it was not good for you. No was the answer, no, no, no!
"The problem for sport is not drugs but corruption. You are the epitome of the word corruption. You can read all about Webster's definition of corruption. If you want I can re-post my attorney's response to your letter where you threaten to sue me for calling the UCI corrupt. FYI I want to officially reiterate to you and Hein that in my opinion the two of your represent the essence of corruption.
"I would encourage anyone that loves cycling to donate and support Paul in his fight against the Pat and Hein and the UCI. Skip lunch and donate the amount that you would have spent towards that Sunday buffet towards changing the sport of cycling.
"I donated money for Paul's defense, and I am willing to donate a lot more, but I would like to use it to lobby for dramatic change in cycling. The sport does not need Pat McQuaid or Hein Verbruggen - if this sport is going to change it is now. Not next year, not down the road, now! Now or never!
"People that really care about cycling have the power to change cycling - change it now by voicing your thought and donating money towards Paul Kimmage's defense, (Paul, I want to encourage you to not spend the money that has been donated to your defense fund on defending yourself in Switzerland. In my case, a USA citizen, I could care less if I lost the UCI's bogus lawsuit. Use the money to lobby for real change).
"If people really want to clean the sport of cycling up all you have to do is put your money where your mouth is.
"Don't buy a USA Cycling license. Give up racing for a year, just long enough to put the UCI and USA cycling out of business. We can then start from scratch and let the real lovers in cycling direct where and how the sport of cycling will go.
"Please make a difference.
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The doping will not be stopped in sports. It can only be "contained" somewhat because it's too widespread in all sports. I believe it's the nature of the top guys to do everything they can to succeed no matter the cost. They are ego driven and their egos won't accept being second. And young people idealize sports "heroes" and will emulate everything they do.
Winning at all costs is a cultural problem. Everybody loves a winner.
 
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