JoePa and Herbie (Merged then Split again)

[osugrad21]

This post wasn't about solving the situation, it was about discussing the situation. And now I'm completely and totally off-topic. But that's fine, I don't really care so much about joepa's comments as I find the debate interesting.

...and I told you how I would handle the situation then asked a question about a final solution.

And if you were asking rhetorically how long I'd been on BBS's I can only assume it was meant in a condescending manner, but I'll let it slide. I haven't been around this board much, which is why I figured I'd get my feet wet in some topics I assumed were pretty pointless, as opposed to heading right into the recruiting forum and spouting off. ^_^

Hmmm. Wasn't meant to be condescending, but I do see how it could be taken as so. Good idea about getting your feet wet...hopefully you can tell we expect a higher level of discussion on this site instead of mindless banter. I appreciate the conversation as well.

 

[NFBuck]

To all the JoePa apologists, would your reaction have been the same if the comments had come from Llloyd Carr?

Of course! I llllove Lllloyd Carr!

 

[jwinslow]

Completely rheotorical. If you have been using this form of communication very long, you would realize the above statement is indeed true.

I would argue that most message boards are regarded as a place full of people just spouting off... and those flames aren't taken too seriously. I agree that there are negative consequences here and at BN/BSB, but most message boards are not like this one.

 

[osugrad21]

I would argue that most message boards are regarded as a place full of people just spouting off... and those flames aren't taken too seriously. I agree that there are negative consequences here and at BN/BSB, but most message boards are not like this one.

Really? So you don't see message boards affecting recruiting at all? Maybe you have forgotten the past...

When you have a limited vantage point of observation for a particular fanbase how could that limited view not affect one's perception?

If you agree there are negative consequences, how can message boards not be taken seriously?

 

[jwinslow]

I said that message boards are not usually taken seriously... and then agreed that BP, BN & BSB do have negative consequences at times. I was merely illustrating that a lifetime of experience on BBS' would not necessarily prepare one for representing OSU here at BP.

 

[osugrad21]

I said that message boards are not usually taken seriously... and then agreed that BP, BN & BSB do have negative consequences at time.

So you are basically waffling?

 

[jwinslow]

So you are basically waffling?

yes, since that's all I do.

Message boards in general: tons of people with very little connection to anything spout off freely.
Message boards on BP/BSB/BN: people bring those tendencies there, but there are consequences in terms of the way OSU's fanbase is perceived unlike the other places.

You said rhetorically that if the user had spent more time on bb's, that he would understand/agree that posts can have consequences. I was merely arguing that most message boards do not encourage that much restraint... so he wouldn't necessarily respect that aspect of the BB world on OSU pages if he were new.

 

[osugrad21]

So, yes, you are waffling

So message boards are full of people spouting off and shouldn't be taken seriously, but they can have a negative effect on a program and fanbase.

So, shouldn't the issue of people spouting off be taken seriously?

 

[Deety]

I would argue that most message boards are regarded as a place full of people just spouting off... and those flames aren't taken too seriously.

Just as a coach's offhand joke isn't taken too seriously... :p

So, Josh, are you saying that message boards can have a negative impact on perceptions in general and recruiting in particular, but it is not always the case, because some people take these things more seriously than others? If so, I'd agree, more because it is simply a true observation than actually taking a stand. The stand I would take would be that we should be slow to anger and watch what we say, in order to diminish the possiblity of negative consequences.

EDIT: I need to get a faster connection. I'm waaay behind.

 

[osugrad21]

You said rhetorically that if the user had spent more time on bb's, that he would understand/agree that posts can have consequences. I was merely arguing that most message boards do not encourage that much restraint...

..and I assumed that given the context of the conversation, most people would have the intelligence to infer I was referring to football message boards. My mistake. I will clarify next time...maybe phonetically.

 

[BuckWrestler141]

So, yes, you are waffling

So message boards are full of people spouting off and shouldn't be taken seriously, but they can have a negative effect on a program and fanbase.

So, shouldn't the issue of people spouting off be taken seriously?

I think you are both write. What he meant to say i'm assuming is... 'people spout off on the internet with the intentions that will cause no true harm and isn't serious'. Few are on the boards long enough and have enough years of observation to be able to notice that their words despite of who they are, are capable of having an impact for the good or the bad. Even though mean said it was intended to simply recieve a laugh or create a topic to pass boredom.

 

[Bucklion]

My my, what a firestorm...for what, exactly? Think Paterno has never been made fun of for his accent, or his looks, his age, his....? Heck, it happens at places like these all the time. And he makes as much fun of himself as anyone else ever could. It was a joke...maybe not funny, but a joke nonetheless. If people are offended, so be it...but personally I have waayyy to much to worry about in my life that to worry about an attempt at humor by a (nearly) 80 year old football coach. Good point about LLLLoyd Carr saying the same thing, I guess, but of course any comment is taken differently, depending on who it is coming from. Example: the comments about black athletes changing the face of college football. Now, if some 36 year-old hotshot coach said it (heck, even Fisher DeBerry), they would probably get into some trouble...when Joe says it, it was because guys like he and Hayden Frye remember what it was like before black kids had the opportunities to play that they have now. So, depending on who says it, the comment is taken differently.

What if Woody had said the same thing? Or Tressel? Would you all be outraged then? And you can't say "they never would have" because EVERYONE has tried to make a joke or said something at one time in their life and said something that didn't come off as either terribly funny or what the person had intended. I have, you have, we all have.

As far as it being because he's bitter about losing to Ohio State, that's completely off base in my opinion, because A) He's been around long enough (coached more games than most people watch in a lifetime) that a couple of losses won't exactly kill him, and B) He's dropped the last 7 to Michigan and never beat Bear Bryant, so I'd think he'd find a way to take a shot at Michigan or Alabama first.

I can't believe people get so overtly offended by these things...I have a degree from Ohio State, and I could care less what other people think about it, one way or the other...especially football coaches, for crying out loud. Do people consider the fact that people joke and take jabs at Ohio State BECAUSE everyone is so freaking sensitive? If these things warranted no reaction, they would stop...from coaches, from media, from whoever. It's the uproar they want, and it's the uproar they get. With a huge, huge bowl matchup to prepare for...why in the world are people obsessing about this?

 

[JXC]

I could care less what JoePa said. Good joke.

But Penn State still sucks. They go 10-1 and everybody is all up their ass. THANK GOD Ohio State doesn't have to go thru a losing half decade just to get a BCS bowl. It's stupid JoePa is getting all this credit. He's not a good coach. He's an idiot. Coaching lost the game vs. Michigan. He has tons of talent on his team...he didn't do anything with it. Just because Penn State was one of the worst teams in the Big 10 over the past few years, doesn't mean that the fact that they are good now means the coaching is good. I'm amazed, with all the talent that Penn State gets, that a coach was able to make Penn State AS BAD as it has been these past few years. Even Lllloyd Carr keeps his team from having losing seasons.

Wake up...Penn State is a joke.

 

[WoodyWorshiper]

I didn't see the interview, and was only made aware of it by it being posted here.

My Take? It's funny as hell. Maybe Paterno isn't a "hands-on" Coach any more. Maybe the game has passed him by a bit. But, this guy has been the goodwill ambassador to Intercollegiate Athletics for the past 40 years.

My personal feeling is that PSU was a "flash in the pan" this year. But, let the guy enjoy it. He's paid his dues and sure as hell deserves it. Peace.

 

[Delaware Buck]

If you have access to any of the press conferences that he has given in the last 5 years and read some of the stuff he has been quoted as saying you cannot be surprised by this at all. He has stated in one way or the other that he feels that PSU is at a disadvantage vs UM and OSU when it comes to the role of the student athlete. He has implied several times that PSU does not "cut corners" like he perceives OSU, UM and others to. He even stated two years ago that Stanford was now PSU's main recruiting rival. Which was his way of saying, "we cannot compete in the B10, but we still care about graduating players and not compromising our integrity". Heck, I doubt 10% of the current PSU players could even get into Stanford, but I guess the comparison made him feel better. He even called out Dwayne Jarrett last season when talking about recruiting and why PSU was handcuffed in certain situations, basically implying that Jarrett was not smart enough to get into PSU.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
If you have read any of his books you know how he feels about the "football factory" mentality. That’s why he started that "grand experiment" stuff. It is also no secret about how JoePa felt about Coop after the 2000 game. I don't think he really cared for the guy and was probably happy to see him go. He respected Woody, but I am not sure he really liked him personally, IMO.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Also, about the stuff in '98 with AK, JoePa did say that if those classes were also available to the general student population, then he had no issue with Andy taking them to remain eligible. However, the year before he made comments that appeared in the Daily Collegian in response to a question about recruiting against OSU. He basically said something to the effect that OSU recruits a "different kind of kid than PSU". The implication was in the context that OSU recruits kids that could not cut it at PSU. So this undercurrent of superiority has been going on for some time between OSU and JoePa. It did not just appear out of nowhere tonight.