J. Hall, C. (Pittsburgh) Brown, and T. Howard reinstated for Miami

[Gatorubet]

If a kid is told that he is being paid by a legitimate charity for a job he is to do, that players in previous years have done, and that the activity has been cleared for a number of years in the past -- then I can understand the kid thinking he's doing nothing wrong.

The outside world can see a person as a "booster" that the kid may see only as a representative of a non-profit organization that is trying to raise funds for cancer survivors or cancer research, which seems to be the case here. The problem is that the NCAA sees many activities as "okay" that to the objective observer would see as questionable, and other activities as "impermissible" to which the objective observer would say "what the [censored]?" Again, this overweening obsession with "amateurism" creates many false indicators of "corruption" that unfairly tar young men.

What is true is that right now none of us know what the facts really are. It is just as likely that you are right as it is billlmac is. Hell, I don't know if its swag bags or $200 handshakes, and neither do you.

So your point is well taken. But if someone gave me cash and I was a player, I do not think that there would be any "gray" area involved. Just do I want the cash I know I should not take. Agree to disagree thing Max.

 

[bukIpower]

Well I will just throw something out... It's something I would cringe if it happened and it would suck if this every happened but here goes...

As a manager, it's no different managing THE Ohio State University than it is my own company. All the rules should be the same for people who decide to break the rules. I give people one mulligan (unless it's something horrible like stealing), and if they chose to mess up again they are GONE. I don't care if they're the best salesman I have I will not put my ass or the integrity of my store on the line for someone elses mistakes.

With that said, instead of giving each player a mulligan you give the TEAM a mulligan. We took that mulligan back in December. The condition is if you take money and you do not report who gave you the money then you are GONE. I'm not talking about alcohol, curfew, drugs, violence, or troubles withthe law. I'm talking about taking money.

Right now we could possibly lose our season, our post season, recruits, and maybe even worse. All for the actions of individuals. If the players think "oh well I'll just get one game" make it clear what happens if you take money. You're GONE. Then you go to the Boosters and you make sure that if they even say the words Ohio State again that they pay the price.

Could you imagine the fear installed had in December they just kicked those 5 off the team? I don't think this thread even exists right now because if you fear losing your spot on the team you wouldn't even dare take money.

Again I would've hated to see anyone get kicked out, but if you want your point to get across you better mean business. In saying that though management of our program is failing because compliance, Gene, and Jim had there chance to impose these types of penalties. If management of the athletic program isn't going to solve the issue then the people in control should be held accountable. This means Gene, and the athletic compliance officers should be gone.

I have only had to fire maybe 2-3 people in my career. It wasn't easy but all times I warned them not to make the same mistakes again or it would cost them their job. When those mistakes happened again if I didn't cut them lose then they would know i'm a push over. If it was me you got to prove a point at some point.

 

[DaveyBoy]

well said

it's called integrity and accountability
it can also be called tough love

as much as it would have sucked to lose to Arkansas, in my opinion Tressel should have sat those guys for the Sugar Bowl. I don't care if Gene Smith told him to play them because Delany had burned up some political capital to please the Sugar Bowl Committee and make sure the game was featuring the best players. Even if the NCAA said they didn't have to, OSU should have taken the big step of doing it anyway because it was the right thing to do.

I realize JT and GS had very little time to make a decision last December. But in my opinion, they chose that one game over the program's integrity. Now after having read JT's interview by the NCAA, it becomes clear that JT knew this was all going to blow up anyway so he said we might as well go out as winners.

In the end, I'm not so sure that JT allowed the Compliance Dept to do their jobs. I'm afraid that his fortress style combined with his love for his players created an atmosphere whereby players started to live out their deeply held beliefs that "the system is unfair....so we're going to make it more fair".

I'm now STARTING to believe that it wouldn't be such a bad idea to scrap the JT legacy staff and athletics administration and start over the day after the Michigan game. Something here stinks to high heaven.

Well I will just throw something out... It's something I would cringe if it happened and it would suck if this every happened but here goes...

As a manager, it's no different managing THE Ohio State University than it is my own company. All the rules should be the same for people who decide to break the rules. I give people one mulligan (unless it's something horrible like stealing), and if they chose to mess up again they are GONE. I don't care if they're the best salesman I have I will not put my ass or the integrity of my store on the line for someone elses mistakes.

With that said, instead of giving each player a mulligan you give the TEAM a mulligan. We took that mulligan back in December. The condition is if you take money and you do not report who gave you the money then you are GONE. I'm not talking about alcohol, curfew, drugs, violence, or troubles withthe law. I'm talking about taking money.

Right now we could possibly lose our season, our post season, recruits, and maybe even worse. All for the actions of individuals. If the players think "oh well I'll just get one game" make it clear what happens if you take money. You're GONE. Then you go to the Boosters and you make sure that if they even say the words Ohio State again that they pay the price.

Could you imagine the fear installed had in December they just kicked those 5 off the team? I don't think this thread even exists right now because if you fear losing your spot on the team you wouldn't even dare take money.

Again I would've hated to see anyone get kicked out, but if you want your point to get across you better mean business. In saying that though management of our program is failing because compliance, Gene, and Jim had there chance to impose these types of penalties. If management of the athletic program isn't going to solve the issue then the people in control should be held accountable. This means Gene, and the athletic compliance officers should be gone.

I have only had to fire maybe 2-3 people in my career. It wasn't easy but all times I warned them not to make the same mistakes again or it would cost them their job. When those mistakes happened again if I didn't cut them lose then they would know i'm a push over. If it was me you got to prove a point at some point.

 

[bassbuckeye07]

Gene Smith works in a state of denial that is border line dishonest....he is our problem....he unfortunatly or fortunatly has friends in high places at the NCAA and that is why he is still here. The relationship with the BoT's has to be awkward at this point....Ohio State would be in less hot water with good pr from the begining and truely complete transparency...I'm annoyed that we (alum and fans) are dealing with this flicking a sleeping bears nose. A bear that does not want to penalize us because of who we are and have been....a bear that has simply grumbled at us and we are pushing to take a big ass swipe

 

[buckeyesin07]

Is there any further information that has been provided on the seeming disconnect between the athletic department and the NCAA on the amount of information that was provided and was expected to be provided on this issue? That seems to be the hang-up here.

 

[southcampus]

All I know is that we need Jordan Hall more than ever right now.

 

[ZoMaN504]

well said

it's called integrity and accountability
it can also be called tough love

as much as it would have sucked to lose to Arkansas, in my opinion Tressel should have sat those guys for the Sugar Bowl. I don't care if Gene Smith told him to play them because Delany had burned up some political capital to please the Sugar Bowl Committee and make sure the game was featuring the best players. Even if the NCAA said they didn't have to, OSU should have taken the big step of doing it anyway because it was the right thing to do.

I realize JT and GS had very little time to make a decision last December. But in my opinion, they chose that one game over the program's integrity. Now after having read JT's interview by the NCAA, it becomes clear that JT knew this was all going to blow up anyway so he said we might as well go out as winners.

In the end, I'm not so sure that JT allowed the Compliance Dept to do their jobs. I'm afraid that his fortress style combined with his love for his players created an atmosphere whereby players started to live out their deeply held beliefs that "the system is unfair....so we're going to make it more fair".

I'm now STARTING to believe that it wouldn't be such a bad idea to scrap the JT legacy staff and athletics administration and start over the day after the Michigan game. Something here stinks to high heaven.

Idiotic. Too bad that only works if it's the same across the entire landscape, which it is not. Players make mistakes. Do you have kids? Would you get rid of your kid if he screwed up? Maybe you would. You clearly don't understand what "tough love" actually is. Tough love is not sending a kid packing. Tough love is making the kid learn and work harder to regain his spot. I do agree compliance needs a change, something there isn't right.

 

[Mike80]

Idiotic. Too bad that only works if it's the same across the entire landscape, which it is not. Players make mistakes. Do you have kids? Would you get rid of your kid if he screwed up? Maybe you would. You clearly don't understand what "tough love" actually is. Tough love is not sending a kid packing. Tough love is making the kid learn and work harder to regain his spot. I do agree compliance needs a change, something there isn't right.

Loving your child =/= coaching a football team.

 

[Taosman]

Tressel is on record as saying he wishes the NCAA had made the Tat5 sit out the Sugar Bowl. I believe him.
It is always better to try to work with the kids(punish them in house) when they step over the line rather than cut them loose. Tressel did this numerous times. If a kid doesn't want to take the punishment he can leave on his own.
As a fan this whole investigation has been frustrating but we have to always keep in mind that these players are still kids. Most will come out of the fire better for staying and taking the penalties. Ray Issac and Maurice Clarett said as much. TP will come around to that conclusion eventually.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Tressel is on record as saying he wishes the NCAA had made the Tat5 sit out the Sugar Bowl. I believe him.
It is always better to try to work with the kids(punish them in house) when they step over the line rather than cut them loose. Tressel did this numerous times. If a kid doesn't want to take the punishment he can leave on his own.
As a fan this whole investigation has been frustrating but we have to always keep in mind that these players are still kids. Most will come out of the fire better for staying and taking the penalties. Ray Issac and Maurice Clarett said as much. TP will come around to that conclusion eventually.

Than Tressel should have sat them himself, if he was on record "wishing the NCAA had made the Tat5 sit out" - infact, Tressel should have sat them when he got the email before the season started.

You can say the right things, or do the right things.. "men of action" and all that jazz.

 

[BB73]

That there is a full bucket of horse shit Scoot.

I understand that you're defending the overall 'SEC is dirty' allegation, but I don't believe that complaining about an apparent difference in the NCAA responses to tOSU's situation, as compared to what has occurred with players from Miami and Alabama, is a bucket of horse shit.

Julio Jones and Mark Ingram went on a free fishing trip before the 2009 season - and received no suspension, Ingram went on to win the Heisman trophy and Bama won the crystal football. Ingram was the offensive MVP in the Title game, the defensive MVP was Marcell Dareus. The guy who owned the condo was deemed to not be a Bama booster, although he apparently also gave improper benefits to a backup linebacker that same offseason, resulting in a 6-game suspension for Jerrell Harris after he wasn't forthcoming when talking to the NCAA. It sucks to be a backup LB instead of a star player at Bama.

A few months later, Dareus was found to have received $1,757 in impermissible benefits by having two trips to Miami paid for, with an agent apparently involved. Dareus is from Birmingham, but somehow Bama got that suspension reduced to 2 games (and Saban wanted to get it down to 1 game since Penn State was the game 2 opponent), apparently by invoking the hardship clause (the same one that I feel was appropiate in reducing Sharrif Floyd's suspension to 2 games). Why it's a hardship for a Birmingham kid to go to Miami a couple times is something that I don't understand.

Most college football fans have seen the picture of Trent Richardson signing a jersey, which reportedly was for sale and hanging in TTown men's wear. TTown is well known in the Tuscaloosa area for having autograph sessions for players after their eligibility has expired, having them in TV commercials, and providing them with clothes. So far there's been no suspension for Richardson, who can declare for the NFL Draft in January and then get paid for his services by TTown.

Miami players went clubbing/yachting with prominent Miami booster Nevin Shapiro, and most of them received only a 1-game suspension and are reinstated in time for this week's game agasint tOSU - and that was known early enough so that last week's practice reps could be taken by Jacory Harris, Sean Spence and the other 6 guys that only received 1 game. It took the NCAA only about 2 weeks to determine the status of at least 12 Miami football players after the Shapiro allegations surfaced in mid-August. It is possible that many of those players had already been investigated by the NCAA, since they;ve been in Miami for a while.

tOSU is still awaiting word on the eligibility of 3 guys that reportedly got a couple hundred dollars at a charity event. It's been 10 days since that was first made public, and the players have already missed 2 games, more than the Miami players did for violations that seem to be at least equal to what the 3 current Buckeyes have done - although it's possible there could still be something else involved.

There are several factors involved here:

- College football fans in general are tired of all the offseason problems.

- We Buckeye fans are more than tired of having to hear about the transgressions of tOSU players, even though it's the result of players breaking the rules and JT committing a 10.1 violation.

- We Buckeye fans are even more disgusted at the way the national media went after Ohio State, with the character assassination piece by SI and the constant negative attention happily slathered on by agenda-driven ESPN.

- Seeing players at Alabama and Miami (and Cam Newton from last year) receive minimal suspensions (or none at all) is aggravating, and makes it appear that the notoriously inconsistent NCAA is harder on tOSU than on others.

All of these things combined understandably make some Buckeye fans want to vent their frustrations on a Buckeye message board. And when a fan from an SEC school takes issue with some Buckeyes posting about being pissed off about the apparent inequities, I believe many Buckeye posters once again would prefer that the SEC guy (who has the most posts in the tattoo/yahoo thread by a wide margin), would post sparingly and carefully in this thread.

 

[bucks93]

Than Tressel should have sat them himself, if he was on record "wishing the NCAA had made the Tat5 sit out" - infact, Tressel should have sat them when he got the email before the season started.

You can say the right things, or do the right things.. "men of action" and all that jazz.

Agreed. Easy to say in hindsight that they shouldn't have played, but the ball was in your court, why not sit them?



Ugh, why are we still talking about this, I just want to move on to football!

 

[MaxBuck]

Loving your child =/= coaching a football team.

Let's hope not, for the sake of Brian Kelly's children.

 

[Gatorubet]

Let's hope not, for the sake of Brian Kelly's children.

 

[Gatorubet]

I understand that you're defending the overall 'SEC is dirty' allegation, but I don't believe that complaining about an apparent difference in the NCAA responses to tOSU's situation, as compared to what has occurred with players from Miami and Alabama, is a bucket of horse [Mark May].

Well Bill, with all due respect, you skipped over my clarification post that agreed with all successful programs have violations if you examine them. Because I tried to make it clear that main thing I took issue with was Scooter's ludicrous statement that my alma mater (as an SEC school), not only had little problem with committing NCAA violations/being dirty, etc., but that in the SEC unethical behavior is "encouraged". Really??

All of these things combined understandably make some Buckeye fans want to vent their frustrations on a Buckeye message board. And when a fan from an SEC school takes issue with some Buckeyes posting about being [censored]ed off about the apparent inequities, I believe many Buckeye posters once again would prefer that the SEC guy (who has the most posts in the tattoo/yahoo thread by a wide margin), would post sparingly and carefully in this thread.

Good Lord. Vent all you want. [censored] with the SEC all you want. Say Bama and Auburn are notoriously dirty. Watch my head nodding with you. Say that in the SEC fierce competition leads to corrupt practices, at least historically. More head nodding. Vent about all kinds of things, because, as you correctly point out, despite the more welcoming than most hospitality of this board, it is a Buckeye site. Or say "You (the SEC) all [censored]ing suck" and should fall into the earth. Meh. Big [censored]ing deal. Scoot was venting, so that did not deserve a comment. But making claims that Florida is dirty, or "encourages" dirty behavior, this Gator is going to call out the person who said that.