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Indians Tidbits (2009 season)

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FWIW (not much, considering) Shapiro was on an STO telecast, oh, a few nights ago for an inning, and he was adamant that the Tribe was going to make a run and that he was sticking to his guns (i.e. no firesale). To Rick Manning's credit he actually asked him point blank about trading DeRosa and Cliff and he replied that nothing is 100% but that he has no plans to do so.
 
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Peralta tries Indians' patience

Two things are driving manager Eric Wedge to distraction this season -- striking out with runners on third base with fewer than two outs and pitchers walking batters. Jhonny Peralta struck out with a runners on second and third Tuesday with one out. "Jhonny is no baby anymore," said Wedge. "He's been up here five or six years. He's got to recognize what he has to do and do it. It's nothing more or less than that." Peralta has had success in the past going to right field. Wedge wouldn't say how long Peralta would be benched.
Cleveland Plain Dealer
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tsteele316;1484095; said:
yep. the "we only finished 8 games back because we had a good month of august when it didn't matter and half the team was on the DL" card will be played all day.

but the bottom line is that cleveland has performed below its pythagorean score every single season under wedge except for 2007. that's a trend. couple that with continually having various units and players being massively inconsistent each season and it's clear to see what the problem is.
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Exactly. The rub with that is, if Wedge is such an exemplary manager that they are so "close", clearly Shapiro is shitting the bed getting him the talent to succeed. It's a double edged sword. Shapiro scouts by the same "moneyball" schemes/computer scouting that Billy Beane used to build those A's teams a few years ago. Problem is, the rest of the league has caught up and now Beane is floundering. The other problem is, Dolan doesn't give two fucks about the team, appears to be all about the "status quo", so Shapiro isn't going anywhere. If Shapiro isn't going anywhere, barring this team absolutely tanking, I doubt Wedge is going anywhere. And mark my words, they'll pull an August/September run together to make the season look better than it was, just like last year...just like tsteele said.

In reality, you can't really knock Shapiro too much in building these teams. He's made some very good moves here. Where he fails is supplementing those moves with smart FA signings (Dellucci?), and failing to put those players in a position to win with a manager that is not a fucking moron.

I can understand not wanting to start a firesale just yet...in a way if you're only concerned about the here and now. This division is very weak and if jake can help the rotation, Grady comes back healthy and Pronk can stay healthy, anything could happen. But, if they have half a brain, they have to realize that making the playoffs doesn't mean shit if you're not built to succeed in October. And this team is far from that. You ultimately gain more for the future making moves now to stock your farm system and give the kids you have down there now experience. Trading that for a longshot at getting swept in round one is foolish IMO. I guess the moves could be made next year, but that sets your rebuilding efforts back another year.

*EDIT* Huff getting roughed up again. :shake:
 
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Some speculation...

Something I just ran across...

With the Indians foundering, there is speculation that this will be the year GM Mark Shapiro will be elevated to club president, with top aide Chris Antonetti being promoted to GM. One rumor has it happening at the All-Star break, but word out of Cleveland is that no change will be made during the season. ?
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Could Harper be derailed on fast track? - MLB - Yahoo! Canada Sports

If Antonetti is a Shapiro disciple, I wouldn't look for any major philosophical shift. Appears it would likely just be a lateral move. Would Antonetti even have final say on personnel moves, or would they still have to pass through Shapiro? We'll see.

More bad news, as if we need it:

Jake Westbrook's rehab is on hold. In the first setback Westbrook has had since his Tommy John ligament replacement surgery one year ago, the Indians appear to have scrapped previous plans to have him make his third rehab start Wednesday. Westbrook is still dealing with some soreness in his right elbow from after his start Friday for Double-A Akron. He played catch today and is tentatively scheduled to throw a bullpen session Wednesday. No word on when the Indians are now targeting that third start to take place, but this would obviously push back Westbrook's big league return.
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http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/06/you_got_bad_bad_luck.html

some more:

Jake Westbrook is still dealing with elbow soreness, so his setback has set him back even further. He did not throw his bullpen session today, and it's been postponed indefinitely. Wedge guessed that it will be at least a few days before the Indians consider having Westbrook throw again. Westbrook has had an MRI that revealed no structural damage, so that's encouraging. But until the soreness dies down, don't look for him to boosting the rotation any time soon.
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http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/06/when_your_foot_of_pride_come_d.html

Fan-fucking-tastic. :smash:


*EDIT* Getting mowed down by Jeff Suppan. Yes, that JEFF FUCKING SUPPAN. :roll1:
 
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a few summation points on the last few posts:

1. grady did strike out a lot this season. he's also been swinging with one arm.

2. peralta fully encapsulates what's wrong with eric wedge and this entire team. he's going to be benched, but starts at 3rd then Drew Gooden's a run in for the Brewers with assinine play. don't worry, when they are 15 games out in august, he finally start doing something, because baby huey is the ultimate johnny-come-lately.

3. chris antonetti is a shapiro disciple, but it's been said that he is not fond of the lightening in a bottle over the hill veteran approach that cleveland has used so often. but i guess it's easy to 2nd guess when it's not your ass in the sling when a signing goes bad. this management move would be great if it got eric wedge canned.
 
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ive said this before

Eric Wedge is an idiot and there is no debate to that

however Shapiro did really [censored] up somewhere, there is no way the pitching depth should be this awful, right now we are basically scraping the bottom of the barrel for relievers and 3-4-5 starters, besides from a few trades he may have got lucky on Shapiro is a so-so GM at best
 
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tsteele316;1484507; said:
3. chris antonetti is a shapiro disciple, but it's been said that he is not fond of the lightening in a bottle over the hill veteran approach that cleveland has used so often. but i guess it's easy to 2nd guess when it's not your ass in the sling when a signing goes bad. this management move would be great if it got eric wedge canned.
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Precisely.
 
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buckeyemania11;1484514; said:
ive said this before

Eric Wedge is an idiot and there is no debate to that

however Shapiro did really [censored] up somewhere, there is no way the pitching depth should be this awful, right now we are basically scraping the bottom of the barrel for relievers and 3-4-5 starters, besides from a few trades he may have got lucky on Shapiro is a so-so GM at best
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to be fair, nobody could have foreseen carmona going batshit, or westbrook missing essentially 2 seasons. when 5 of your top 7 in the rotation coming out of spring training (counting westbrook) aren't in the rotation come mid-June, it's hard to blame the GM.

A rotation of Lee, a marginally effective Carmona, Westbrook, Pavano, and Laffey is fairly respectable. Sowers could be long relief, which is where he should be.

the only place I will fault Shapiro is in giving Hafner the contract he did. that was just bad baseball business for a small market team.
 
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tsteele316;1484524; said:
the only place I will fault Shapiro is in giving Hafner the contract he did. that was just bad baseball business for a small market team.
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Especially in a season when his numbers were already going south big-time. But yeah, the injuries have been handcuffing. Now Westbrook appears to be suffering a setback and Pavano is struggling and talking about neck soreness. I'd be shocked if he's not on the DL soon.
 
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Pavano is struggling and talking about neck soreness. I'd be shocked if he's not on the DL soon.
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im surprised he lasted this long

if he hits the DL then it gets even worse, since they get to pick from Zach Jackson Kirk Saarloos and Jack Cassel to replace him, Lofgren had a nice start his last start in AAA but I doubt they throw him up yet

and surprise surprise, the pigeon coop surrenders the lead
 
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Of course Wedge, with all his savvy in handling a bullpen, leaves Smith in for a second inning and he promptly allows the go ahead run. Smith is, and has been, short relief all his career and Wedge can't get it through his thick fucking skull that he's only effective for one inning. This guy must've been dropped on his head as a child. Unbelievable. :shake:
 
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