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Indians Tidbits (2009 season)

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Carmona to rookie ball is a smart move. Like everyone has said here, his mechanics are messed up and Rookie Ball is the place to be to reconstruct yourself.

itownbuckeye;1478510; said:
One thing that concerns me is that I keep hearing they want major league pitching back in these deals. Of course I'd want good major league pitchers but if the choice is between a AA prospect with FOR potential and a major league ready guy who will never be anything more than a #5 starter, I'll take the high upside prospect who is a year or two away.
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I was thinking that earlier. Cuz really the higher ceiling guys will be a few years away as if the guy was major league ready he would be at the majors already. Cuz if he is a major league ready high prospect(Bucholtz comes to mind) it might come with a hefty price tag (ie Victor for Bucholtz straight up)

But the key is what do the Indians define as major league ready? Is it a guy that can pitch now in the majors? Or maybe he needs another season in the minors and could crack the rotation next year? Cuz the later can get us a better prospect.
 
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We need to get serious. If we would trade Victor and Lee, attendance would start to drop worse than it already has and the Indians would be a AAA team playing in the major leagues. They would become the laughingstock of baseball. We can laugh at them because we follow them but you can only do so much before you really destroy the franchise.
 
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LitlBuck;1478573; said:
We need to get serious. If we would trade Victor and Lee, attendance would start to drop worse than it already has and the Indians would be a AAA team playing in the major leagues. They would become the laughingstock of baseball. We can laugh at them because we follow them but you can only do so much before you really destroy the franchise.
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I guess it's matter of opinion, but what good does holding onto guys on a bad team that can help you build to a brighter future do? Cliff will not be an Indian past this contract. Victor, as much as I love him, is expendable. It's no different than what happened in 2002. The big names were either traded or allowed to leave via FA and that led to a couple bad years, but ultimately to a couple of good years down the road. Sometimes you have to sacrifice the short term for a better future.
 
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NFBuck;1478581; said:
I guess it's matter of opinion, but what good does holding onto guys on a bad team that can help you build to a brighter future do? Cliff will not be an Indian past this contract. Victor, as much as I love him, is expendable. It's no different than what happened in 2002. The big names were either traded or allowed to leave via FA and that led to a couple bad years. Sometimes you have to sacrifice the short term for a better future.
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Agree. With the starting pitching that is currently available to the team they're not going anywhere. I don't see any way they will spend enough on free agents next year to remedy the problem (more likely to decrease payroll than add). There is a pretty decent stable of pitching prospects with upside in the minors but most of those guys will not likely make a big impact until at least 2011. By that time Victor & Cliff will be gone anyway. With Victor & Cliff under team control for 2010 they could potentially get quite a haul of propects and have the system loaded with cheap young talent. It's not an ideal situation but it has proven to be a means for smaller market teams to compete.
 
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LitlBuck;1478573; said:
We need to get serious. If we would trade Victor and Lee, attendance would start to drop worse than it already has and the Indians would be a AAA team playing in the major leagues. They would become the laughingstock of baseball. We can laugh at them because we follow them but you can only do so much before you really destroy the franchise.
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Wait, you think the attendance isn't going to drop like a lead balloon regardless?

We are basically damned if we do and damned if we don't. Shapiro struck out on ALL of the young pitching we had to bring up this year and it has killed this team. Not only for this year, but future years because we have to wait 2-3 years for the next batch of young pitchers. At least Victor we have some sort of replacements in the minors, Lee, not so much.

But one guy that might have trade value that we haven't talked about is Kerry Wood. Contenders love bullpen guys and if a contender loses their closer due to injury he might become a valuable trade asset.
 
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Keep an eye on Big Papi in Boston. If he continues to hit like Alvaro Espinoza, Victor will become very attractive to them. Buchholz was mentioned earlier, and he's a guy I'd love to snag. If the Yankees keep rolling and Papi still can't hit, they'll be willing to talk turkey. They have a deep farm system and Buchholz is a guy that could contribute this year...throw in another prospect or two and that becomes an attractive offer. Victor deserves to win too.

While this season is pretty much already a wash, at least we have some young guys to get excited about and some potential trading chips to keep things interesting. The way Santana is playing (and Shoppach is "hitting"), he'll be in Cleveland later this summer and I think LaPorta will get a proper look before too long. Hopefully Brantley picks it up as well.
 
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RIP

Former Indians owner Jacobs dies | indians.com: News

Dick Jacobs agreed to buy the Indians in 1986, and his decision to do so assured his legacy with Indians fans.

But it is what the team did under his ownership that will linger most in their minds.

Jacobs brought back the glory days of Indians baseball. His teams won five straight division titles from 1995-99 and reached the World Series in 1995 and '97. Those things will be what people in Cleveland will miss most.

They will, of course, miss Dick Jacobs, too. He passed away early Friday morning at the age of 83, after a lengthy illness.

"Today is a very sad day for the Cleveland Indians organization," current owner Larry Dolan said in a statement released by the club. "Dick engineered the renaissance of Cleveland Indians baseball and achieved success at the ownership level that hadn't been experienced in Cleveland since Bill Veeck in the '40s."
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Pavano vs. Danks tonight. Danks' ERA is below 6.00, so they may stand a chance here.

This article:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/06/05/carmona.hafner.ap/index.html

confirms Ohka taking Carmona's spot in the rotation (:lol:), but with the off day Monday, he won't be needed until June 13th. Like it says, Halladay (in 2001) and Volquez (in '07) have suffered similar setbacks, and Halladay came back to win 19 games the next year and a Cy Young 2 years later. Hopefully this will allow Fausto to work on his mechanics, the mental aspect and maybe develop another out pitch.
 
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NFBuck;1478770; said:
Pavano with a three-hit shutout (amazing the turnaround he's made after that disasterous debut)...nice. 6-0, always nice to get a win over the [censored]ing WhiteSox.
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he has been outstanding, I would had never had thought it

he and cliff lee are keeping this team from being a complete joke, the other starters combined ERA has to be somewhere over 6
 
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