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Mac
That's a pain in the buns
buckeyemania11;1189824; said:
Not surprising. He's just as bad as Sowers. I've been saying this for the past few years. Yeah sure he throws strikes but he leaves the ball over the plate way too much. I don't care if it's his style. You can't pitch like that and expect to win 15+ games consistently.
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LitlBuck
Kevin Warren is an ass
I was listening to sports talk TV out of Cleveland yesterday and Bruce Drennan brought up the fact that he thought not only should they give CC his final offer and if he does not like it to put them on the block. I totally agree with that.
In addition, he said that the Indian should try and trade Blake and JP and Byrd in which I also agree. He said that JP's contract is very management friendly and the fact that Cabrera is batting over 400 while playing SS in AAA might say something about his comfort level at the plate while playing SS.
While he thinks Blake is a good
player, something which I disagree with, he believes that since Blake is leading the Indians in RBIs and the fact that he can play multiple positions might be a plus for him in a trade to a possible contender. I agree with the fact it is time to trade Blake and let Marte play 3rd the rest of the season and see what he brings to the table.
Trading Byrd to a contender for some prospects also is a good idea. Well I like him, he has too many ups and downs, mostly ups and they go very far:2004:, it is time for the Indians to start and get some younger talent and Byrd probably only has a year or two left in the tank anyway.
I would throw in DD, our power hitting OF
, in any of these deals to sweeten the pot if anybody would take him. I would not let any of our 4 young outfielders go except maybe for Gut and the price would have to be very right. The other three I would consider untouchable except maybe for Choo and that price would be much higher than for Gut. I might even trade speedy
Garko if the price was right.
I am just tired of watching this slow team that cannot hit. I might even bring back Omar to manage. They love the guy up in Cleveland and he would sell more tickets.
In addition, he said that the Indian should try and trade Blake and JP and Byrd in which I also agree. He said that JP's contract is very management friendly and the fact that Cabrera is batting over 400 while playing SS in AAA might say something about his comfort level at the plate while playing SS.
While he thinks Blake is a good
player, something which I disagree with, he believes that since Blake is leading the Indians in RBIs and the fact that he can play multiple positions might be a plus for him in a trade to a possible contender. I agree with the fact it is time to trade Blake and let Marte play 3rd the rest of the season and see what he brings to the table.Trading Byrd to a contender for some prospects also is a good idea. Well I like him, he has too many ups and downs, mostly ups and they go very far:2004:, it is time for the Indians to start and get some younger talent and Byrd probably only has a year or two left in the tank anyway.
I would throw in DD, our power hitting OF
, in any of these deals to sweeten the pot if anybody would take him. I would not let any of our 4 young outfielders go except maybe for Gut and the price would have to be very right. The other three I would consider untouchable except maybe for Choo and that price would be much higher than for Gut. I might even trade speedy Garko if the price was right.I am just tired of watching this slow team that cannot hit. I might even bring back Omar to manage. They love the guy up in Cleveland and he would sell more tickets.
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I dont think Byrd has anything left in the tank right now.......... he has been serving up batting practice all season, I dont think anyone is going to give up anything worth anything for him
As far as Marte goes I have made my point about him many times In this thread, he is AWFUL he can not field and he can not hit, If I were the GM I would trade him for a bucket of balls..........
As far as Marte goes I have made my point about him many times In this thread, he is AWFUL he can not field and he can not hit, If I were the GM I would trade him for a bucket of balls..........
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Any offer they would make would be a token offer, so yeah. It's time to blow this team up. I love C.C., and he's been a great Indian, but it's best for all parties involved to move him. Another rebuilding process is on the horizon and you start that by dealing what you have to bring in young players for the future (see Colon in '02). Hell, they should even take offers on Lee. If he can net enough in return, deal him too.LitlBuck;1190592; said:
Peralta should not be part of any long term plans here. He's a bit player with some pop. He's awful in the field and is wildly inconsistent at the plate. Maybe Cabrera's future is at SS and I'm glad to see him hitting in AAA. We still need to be able to field a five man rotation, so until we get healthy, they can't really afford to move Byrd. Come deadline time though, he may be able to be moved to a contender for a borderline prospect, but I don't see us getting much in return for a bottom of the rotation guy.
Blake is a good player to have on a contending team. He can play multiple positions and swings a decent bat. I'm vehemently against banking on Marte at all however. The guy just cannot hit and I wish they'd just dump his ass already. Maybe deal Blake at the deadline and give hodges a September call up.While he thinks Blake is a good
Trading Byrd to a contender for some prospects also is a good idea. Well I like him, he has too many ups and downs, mostly ups and they go very far, it is time for the Indians to start and get some younger talent and Byrd probably only has a year or two left in the tank anyway.
Dellucci is dead weight. On a contender, he could make for a decent left handed bat off the bench, but he's already up there in years, so i doubt there's much interest in him. Gutz has been my biggest disappointment this year. I was really looking for him to have a breakout season, but it hasn't happened. I'd like to just see them play Choo and Francisco at the corner outfield spots until one of them gives a reason not to.I would throw in DD, our power hitting OF
Omar would need to at the very least manage somewhere first, hell, I don't even know if that's in his plans. Wedge ain't going anywhere. He's Shapiro's boy.
The only players I'd consider "untouchable" on this roster would be: Grady, Victor, Fausto and Laffey. Let the vultures pick at the rest...
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LitlBuck
Kevin Warren is an ass
I would add Francisco to this list unless we would get a deal that would completely blow us away.
I know that we are not going to get much for the guys that I have mentioned but we have to start getting younger. Blake is in the last year of his contract and I have no idea what he would want next year. Teams are probably waiting for the Indians to let AM try to be shipped back to the minors and then they will probably jump on him and he would probably be another Brandon Phillips. They really haven't played in that much so at least they should play him for about 30-40 games and see what happens.
I know that wedge is Shapiro's boy but I just want to clean house. Have Dolan sell the team and blow it up:(
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billmac91
Head Coach
What a terrible string of luck Shapiro has run into.
Truthfully, his entire reputation was built on one trade: Colon for Lee, Phillips, and Sizemore.
Since then....
Overpays for Westbrook, while keeping it on the down-low he had elbow surgery before. Westbrook blows his elbow out again, and the cat is let out of the bag.
Trades CoCo for Shoppach and Marte. Shoppach has been a solid back-up but Marte was the prize in the deal. The same Marte that John Shuerholz let out of Atlanta. That should have been enough warning. It seems like an over-statement but look at the guys track-record for development and trades. Shapiro should have known better...
Signs Hafner to a huge contract. Hafner is in a year slump. Roids, hit in the face by a slider, loss of confidence??? Who knows, but they wish they could take this deal back.
Let's Brandon Phillips go for next to nothing because of a poor attitude and lack of discipline at the plate. We all know how that ended.
Rumored to have not pulled the trigger on several deals b/c he didn'tw ant to let go of Andrew Miller/Jake Westbrook/Francisco Guiterrez. I don't remember who for, but it's probably in this thread.
And he continues to sign over-aged players to hold spots on the roster while taking at-bats away from future starters. Why isn't Aubrey getting a good look? If Fausto Carmona and Jake Westbrook don't get injured, Laffey is undoubtedly back in the minors. It seems the money that is spent, must be used even at the expense of the team.
It will be interesting to see what happens at the trade deadline to say the least...
Truthfully, his entire reputation was built on one trade: Colon for Lee, Phillips, and Sizemore.
Since then....
Overpays for Westbrook, while keeping it on the down-low he had elbow surgery before. Westbrook blows his elbow out again, and the cat is let out of the bag.
Trades CoCo for Shoppach and Marte. Shoppach has been a solid back-up but Marte was the prize in the deal. The same Marte that John Shuerholz let out of Atlanta. That should have been enough warning. It seems like an over-statement but look at the guys track-record for development and trades. Shapiro should have known better...
Signs Hafner to a huge contract. Hafner is in a year slump. Roids, hit in the face by a slider, loss of confidence??? Who knows, but they wish they could take this deal back.
Let's Brandon Phillips go for next to nothing because of a poor attitude and lack of discipline at the plate. We all know how that ended.
Rumored to have not pulled the trigger on several deals b/c he didn'tw ant to let go of Andrew Miller/Jake Westbrook/Francisco Guiterrez. I don't remember who for, but it's probably in this thread.
And he continues to sign over-aged players to hold spots on the roster while taking at-bats away from future starters. Why isn't Aubrey getting a good look? If Fausto Carmona and Jake Westbrook don't get injured, Laffey is undoubtedly back in the minors. It seems the money that is spent, must be used even at the expense of the team.
It will be interesting to see what happens at the trade deadline to say the least...
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I somewhat agree here. I think Francisco has the tools to be a good major league OF, but not really someone you build a team around. I doubt many teams would show interest in him anyway. I'm a fan of his, but I don't see him developing into more than what he is now...a good corner OF.LitlBuck;1190643; said:
The big difference between Marte and Phillips is that Phillips at least showed flashes of potential in the minors. Marte hasn't shown shit.
Agree. i've said for a long time that Wedge is in the lower echelon of ML managers.
Yep.billmac91;1190654; said:
I was all for the Westbrook signing when it happened. He was a sinkerballer that ate innings. Seemed great. The elbow injury "cover up" is a foul though.
Eh, as I said earlier, this trade hasn't turned out as bad as it could have. Coco has hardly done much in Boston, and at least Shoppach is a serviceable ML catcher. Marte, on the otherhand, is an unmitigated flop.
I have a hard time really disagreeing with that signing. At the time, Hafner was still a very important piece of the future. unfortunately, he still hasn't snapped out of that funk. Recent indications are that his physical problems are far more than initially thought. Hopefully when he gets healthy, the old Pronk comes back.
Like I said earlier, Phillips always showed potential in the minors, Marte hasn't show shit anywhere. My distaste for Shelton is well stated in this thread, but I don't think anybody can make Marte a major league caliber hitter.
His "stand pat" strategies have come back to bite him in the ass. This is now an aging team with out a whole lot of talent on the farm. The deadline should be quite interesting, but if significant moves aren't made, I'm gonna be pissed. It's just time to rebuild again and we have some pieces to make some moves to look towards the future.
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exactly, he got lucky on ONE trade
and he refuses to sign any quality free agents
its time to move on...............
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Mac
That's a pain in the buns
Untouchables: Grady, Laffey, Victor, Carmona, Fransisco, and MAYBE Choo.
Honestly I would MUCH rather see Blake playing 3B than Marte. Marte is just a bum. I think we could pull someone out of the stands that could hit better than him.
We need a new look for this team in '09 that's for sure
Honestly I would MUCH rather see Blake playing 3B than Marte. Marte is just a bum. I think we could pull someone out of the stands that could hit better than him.
We need a new look for this team in '09 that's for sure
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Zippercat
Legend
buckeyemania11;1190685; said:
People here seem to have VERY selective memories. Not every trade works, of course, and Shapiro may well have a low batting average for his trades..time will tell..but it's nothing but pure horsehockey to claim he only had ONE successful trade. What about the deal for Cabrera? Or Gut? The deal that got Coco? Or Westbrook? Or Haftner? Or Choo?
Don't know what your definition of "quality free agents" might be, but I think at least the following free agent players were signed by Shapiro and have made positive contributions: JoBo (like him or not, he DID lead the AL in saves last season), Blake, Carroll & Kobi (so far, at least), Millwood, etc.
Finally, a very large percentage of the roster is home grown...but shouldn't Shapiro & company get at least some credit for identifying and developing all these guys. OK, they missed on Phillips and several others (of course, I still think that Wedgie deserves some of the blame/credit for that too) but they didn't miss on CC, Victor, Garko, Carmono, Bentancourt, etc.
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Really? He had one good year and has been a disaster so far this year. Also C.C. was drafted and Victor signed under the Hart regime, not Shapiro.Zippercat;1190843; said:
Sure Shapiro deserves credit for finding some of those players, but when the team fucking sucks, the tendancy is to look at the flip-side of that coin. It's hard to argue that he hasn't made a number of gaffes in his time here.
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OHSportsFan
Fan of Ohio Sports in Indy
went to the Bisons game tonight against the Indianapolis Indians. They lost 3-2 after Jensen Lewis had a rough relief outing. He had absolutely no control...ugh.
Asdrubal Cabrera...wow. What a player. He is doing very well for himself down in Triple A. Hit a leadoff homer to start the game. He's batting .434 now. He looked like a Major Leaguer playing down a level. Good D, Good hitting, and Good baserunning. Glad I got a chance to watch him up close.
Asdrubal Cabrera...wow. What a player. He is doing very well for himself down in Triple A. Hit a leadoff homer to start the game. He's batting .434 now. He looked like a Major Leaguer playing down a level. Good D, Good hitting, and Good baserunning. Glad I got a chance to watch him up close.
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