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Indians Tidbits (2006 season)..

I feel bad for Shapiro because he is going to take a lot of shit for this move, and unfortunately for him we won't know if it was a good move for a few years. Hopefully this will look like the Colon or Hafner moves in a few years. If Shapiro thinks this is the best for the Indians I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he is proven wrong. This is going to look almost as bad as the Browns near firing of Savage to the Cleveland fans.
 
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...and unfortunately for him we won't know if it was a good move for a few years. Hopefully this will look like the Colon or Hafner moves in a few years.

And therein lies my problem with this. I though we were past the "in a few years this deal will pay off" time period of "the plan"? Hell, we could keep trading for potential forever and keep watching other teams winning.
 
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And therein lies my problem with this. I though we were past the "in a few years this deal will pay off" time period of "the plan"? Hell, we could keep trading for potential forever and keep watching other teams winning.

I think the idea is that next year its going to pay off, I know that's not this year... but as I hope has been mentioned... 3B is an organizational weakness. And power hitting 3B's are expensive.

Thinkg with the Tribe is, that we have some very good and some not so good things going for us. The remind me a lot of the late 90's redsox teams who had all sorts of talent up the middle, but chumps at the traditional power spots.

You can get away with a weak 1B or 3B or RF or LF... but we have some weakness at all those positions. The primary Offense in this lineup is at C, SS, CF.... which are the hardest spots to get power hitters... that's the good news... the bad news is that we don't have guys ready to go at the other positions.... but hopefully will soon.

Problem of course is that you could get away with Crisp in Left if you had power at one or two of the other spots.... but you can't trade Martinez, Sizemore, or Peralta, etc. (and you see that Hafner, while a very talented hitter, is a liability in that he can't use a glove.)

Anyway... I don't feel all that good about this trade, but... I see why its necessary. I guess we'll see if it goes down or not, in the grand scheme, we are getting a lot of value for Crisp.
 
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And therein lies my problem with this. I though we were past the "in a few years this deal will pay off" time period of "the plan"? Hell, we could keep trading for potential forever and keep watching other teams winning.

Precisely. This team can win now. Why jeopardize that?

Plus, just look at him.

___
 
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im right with everything you've said JCOSU.....if we've been building for the future, and our team came so close last year, why are we trying to rebuild again?...and to the poster who said shapiro is going to take a lot of shit....i don't think he will, intelligent baseball fans know he is trying his best with the budget he gets from his owner..coco is going to arbitartion and dolan doesnt want to pay him, so the logical thing to do is trade him for the best prospect we can get....i understand that, what i dont understand is why fuck with the nucleus of a team that has a chance to contend...just pay coco his friggin money....3 ill for 1 year or lock him up long term....to be honest id rather have let david riske and and overrated bob wickman go, and re-sign coco ....theres 3 mil in salary for an average relief pitcher, and a closer who's one more hamburger away from a heart attack
 
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im right with everything you've said JCOSU.....if we've been building for the future, and our team came so close last year, why are we trying to rebuild again?...and to the poster who said shapiro is going to take a lot of shit....i don't think he will, intelligent baseball fans know he is trying his best with the budget he gets from his owner..coco is going to arbitartion and dolan doesnt want to pay him, so the logical thing to do is trade him for the best prospect we can get....i understand that, what i dont understand is why fuck with the nucleus of a team that has a chance to contend...just pay coco his friggin money....3 ill for 1 year or lock him up long term....to be honest id rather have let david riske and and overrated bob wickman go, and re-sign coco ....theres 3 mil in salary for an average relief pitcher, and a closer who's one more hamburger away from a heart attack

What I'm trying to understand... and I guess I'm simplifying thisngs too much... is that you want to Trade Coco, fine...

But... I'm a little confused as to why we're looking to turn Mota back around to the Phillies for Jason Michaels and giving and signing Perez... To me it seems fien to kind of always let youth be served at one position a year... so why aren't we greenlighting Franklin Gutierrez or Ryan Garko... (and going to arbtration with Ben Broussard)....

I guess we may end up seeing a lot of both, I hope we do anyway...
 
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Ok, listening to sports radio and a couple of interviews with Phily, Boston & MLB people and the more I am liking it. But I will sum up with what everyone said.

First off Mota is what is holding this up. He had arm problems and has to take a physical (the reason his stats didn't look good last year). If the Indians like the physical they keep Mota and trade Rhodes to Philadelphia. If the Indians don't like the physical Phily can take him, and if not Boston has to give up someone else.

From what the MLB experts say is if he is healthy he will more than replace Howry and might be able to take over the closer role next year. They also feel Michaels can improve if given the chance to play a whole year. They feel .280, 20-25Hrs, 80 RBIs and .350-.375 On Base % could be likely. Not bad if you add in a good setup man and an up and coming 3B prospect.

About Marte, they feel he could be ready by June/July. So this isn't a prospect we have to wait 2 years for. The return will be quicker and if Boone slumps he can take over during July. In addition the "experts" once again stated the importance of the corner position. Basically it will be easier come trading deadline to pick up a LF/RF over a quality 3B.

Now about the Dolan is cheap and doesn't want to pay Coco. Quick question... who are the top 4 position players you would want to keep? You pay the salaries to keep Hafner, Martinez, Peralta & Sizemore. If we sign Coco we might have to let one of the above go. You don't commit great money to keep your 5th best position player. We get younger... and better especially if Marte comes through.

Of course if Marte is another Phillips or Escobar well then we hope that Michaels breaks out and Mota becomes a better closer than Wickman. I trust Shapiro.
 
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piney everything you said makes sense but we're talking about all unproven players for a proven .300 hitter....admittedly after reading that i do feel a slight bit better, i still don't like the trade ....i also trust shapiro and hes trying to make the best move he can with what he has to work with.....im about 99% certain if you gave shapiro the option to re-sign coco without jeopardizing the future of hafner, martinez, sizemore and peralta he'd take over trading coco for a prospect and reliever coming off a 4.8 era season
 
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Well, Shapiro has made an awful lot of good moves. I know Piney, Hawg and TSteele didn't just fall of the turnip truck, so if they are good with it, I will be too. I just like Coco. He has an exuberance for the game. It's the intangibles we will miss, IMHO.
 
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1/24/06

Posted on Tue, Jan. 24, 2006
Wedge prefers to look ahead

But memory of collapse drives Indians manager

By Sheldon Ocker

Beacon Journal sportswriter

<!-- begin body-content -->CLEVELAND - Manager Eric Wedge is among the multitude of Northeast Ohians who have not forgotten the Indians' collapse in the final week of the 2005 season, a sad event that cost them a spot in the playoffs.
Though Wedge said he moved on almost immediately, he stored the memories of the failed series against the Tampa Bay Devil Rays and the Chicago White Sox near the front of his brain.
``On my drive home that final day, I was already thinking about next year,'' Wedge said Monday at Jacobs Field. ``Usually, I would give myself a few days before I started to do that, but not this time.''
What Wedge didn't say is that it was more comforting to look ahead than to relive the agony of the lost week. On the other hand, Wedge knew a post mortem would be necessary.
``I don't necessarily look at it as a lost week,'' he said. ``Tampa played us tough all year. And in the final series against Chicago, well, they had just won (the division), and that took the pressure off them. What happened is that we tried to do a little too much.''
Explaining what went wrong against the Devil Rays and White Sox, Wedge said that what you saw is what you got.
``I really felt like Tampa stuck it to us from a starting-pitching standpoint,'' said Wedge, crediting the Devil Rays' rotation. ``They were a different club in the second half of the season. And it wasn't just us.''
The New York Yankees were regularly victimized by the Devil Rays last season.
The Indians' problems with the White Sox had more to do with the Indians' execution of fundamentals than the quality of the White Sox starting pitchers, who dominated the American League.
``We needed to execute late in games against the White Sox,'' said Wedge, whose troops lost nine one-run games against Chicago. ``Overall, we executed bunts and other fundamentals pretty well.
``In fact, I think we were in the top 10 in baseball for bunts. But we didn't do well situationally late in games, and that's when getting a bunt down is most important.''
Wedge always manages to turn bad news and bad memories into something positive.
``I think that whatever we went through, as tough as it was, we'll be better for it,'' the manager said.
No deal yet
General Manager Mark Shapiro was clearly upset that word of the prospective swap of Coco Crisp to Boston apparently had been leaked by the Red Sox.
``When there is something to announce, when something is complete,'' he said, ``I will speak freely about it.''
Said Wedge: ``We like to keep things like this close to the vest. It's unfortunate that this got out there.''
Meanwhile, trade talks continue to bring third-base prospect Andy Marte from the Red Sox and outfielder Jason Michaels from the Philadelphia Phillies. Reportedly, if Arthur Rhodes passes a physical for the Phillies, the deal should be consumated as early as today.
International scene
Add catcher Victor Martinez to the list of Indians who are prepared to participate in the World Baseball Classic, set for March.
``They (Venezuela) asked me to play, but that's all I've heard,'' Martinez said. ``They did say they were going to have three catchers. Some people are saying that I would be the DH.''
How is the tournament being received in Venezuela? ``That's all people are talking about there,'' Martinez said.
Each participating country has compiled a list of 60 prospective players, which will be trimmed to 30 for the event.
Jhonny Peralta has agreed to play for the Dominican Republic, Fernando Cabrera for Puerto Rico and C.C. Sabathia for the U.S.
 
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1/24/06

Wedge, Shapiro mum on trading Coco Crisp

Tuesday, January 24, 2006


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>[FONT=Verdana, Times New Roman, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]By Andy Call REPOSITORY SPORTS WRITER[/FONT]


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CLEVELAND - Coco Crisp’s locker at Jacobs Field was empty Monday morning, other than two pictures of his baby daughter taped to the top.
Understand, this is not a confirmation of anything. There are a lot of empty lockers in the home clubhouse at Jacobs Field in mid-January.
No one from the Indians, however, was denying that Crisp’s locker will stay empty. Reports in two Boston newspapers Sunday and Monday indicated the Indians and Red Sox are close to completing a deal that would send the 26-year-old outfielder to Boston for third-base prospect Andy Marte and right-handed relief pitcher Guillermo Mota.
“It would be kind of sad if Coco wasn’t here, but they know what they’re doing,” catcher Victor Martinez said. “They’re not going to do anything to hurt our team.”
One Boston paper reported that the players need only to pass physicals for the trade to be completed. The Indians reportedly would replace Crisp by sending a veteran reliever to Philadelphia for outfielder Jason Michaels. That pitcher could be Rafael Betancourt, Arthur Rhodes or Mota.
Indians General Manager Mark Shapiro was firm in his non-confirmation and non-denial. Shapiro brought a bottle of water with him Monday when he sat down to meet with reporters who cover the team. The bottle was still full when Shapiro concluded his remarks a few seconds later.
“When there’s something to announce, I’ll speak freely about it,” Shapiro said.
“We need to continually explore ways to make this team better, now and in the future. Sometimes these conversations leak out. Most of the time, they don’t. When they do, it’s disrespectful of the player and their families.”
Marte is considered one of the best position-player prospects in the game and a potential replacement for Aaron Boone next year. Some fans, however, might view replacing Crisp with Michaels as a short-term downgrade that would hinder the postseason aspirations of the 2006 team. Crisp batted .300 with 42 doubles and 15 stolen bases in 2005.
Indians Manager Eric Wedge was not convinced that view was the correct one.
“We want anything we do to be positive for this year and beyond,” Wedge said. “We’re not going to do anything we think will negatively affect this year. “We’re not looking to take any steps back.” Reach Repository sports writer Andy Call at (330) 580-8346 or e-mail: [email protected]
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1/24/06

BASEBALL | INDIANS

Acquiring, developing prospects is business plan

Tuesday, January 24, 2006

Scott Priestle
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

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Jhonny Peralta arrived at Cleveland Indians camp last spring as an accomplished minor-league player with four career big-league home runs on his resume and the ambitious goal of hitting 20 in his first full season. He finished with 24, the most ever by an Indians shortstop.

"I want to hit 30 this year, so maybe I hit 34," he said with a smile yesterday, as the Indians annual winter caravan stopped in Columbus. "I want to be better than last year, for sure."

It is the evolution of an elite player, and it is necessary if the Indians are to evolve from a playoff contender to a playoff participant. Although they expect to compete with the best clubs in the American League for the foreseeable future, they are not prepared to spend with the richest clubs.

Their fate is tied to how youngsters such as Peralta, Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee follow up their breakthrough seasons, and whether youngsters such as Fernando Cabrera, Ryan Garko and Franklin Gutierrez produce breakthrough seasons.

That point was driven home during the Tribe’s failed pursuit of free agents B.J. Ryan, Brian Giles, Trevor Hoffman and Nomar Garciaparra this winter, and it is at the root of the rumor du jour — the multi-team, multi-player trade that would at least cost the Indians outfielder Coco Crisp and bring them third base prospect Andy Marte.

If it goes through in any of its rumored forms, the Indians would be gambling that they can replace Crisp in the short term and that Marte would be an upgrade in the long run. Which is to say, it is the type of low-financial-risk, high-reward gamble the Indians have relied upon in recent years.

"Anything we do, we want it to be positive for this year and beyond," manager Eric Wedge said. "We’re not going to do anything that affects us in a negative way this year. We’re not looking to take a step back."

The most significant trade scenario — and, according to one Indians official, the most likely — has Crisp, reliever David Riske and backup catcher Josh Bard headed to Boston for Marte, reliever Guillermo Mota and catching prospect Kelly Shoppach. The Indians would then trade reliever Arthur Rhodes to Philadelphia for outfielder Jason Michaels, who would replace Crisp in left field.

The Indians would acquire two prospects at positions where prospects are difficult to find while also unloading two relievers Wedge seemed to lose faith in during the second half of last season.

Marte is the key. He is the rare prospect endorsed by the scout-centric Baseball America and stat-centric Baseball Prospectus, and he fills a position of little depth within the organization. He would be in line to replace Aaron Boone when Boone’s contract expires after the upcoming season.
The wild card is Crisp, who is a proven player but still is four seasons away from free agency and perhaps has not yet peaked.

"I like Andy Marte’s bat a lot," said a scout from an American League team.

"However, he is not Coco Crisp, in that he is not a switch-hitter and plus defender with . . . the power to develop into All-Star status.

"I would keep Crisp at all costs."

Pending physicals, the trades could be completed later this week.

[email protected]
 
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I hate to see Coco leave, but when dealing in baseball you have to keep the future #1, The Current Season #2. That is how good baseball franchises work.

Marte >>> Coco by pretty much every experts opinion.
 
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