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Indians Tidbits (2006 season)..

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I am a huge Bill Simmons fan as he is an hilarious sports writer and huge Boston fan. So here is his reaction to the Coco trade.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons

Subject No. 2
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I like Coco Crisp. I think he will be better in every respect than Johnny Damon over the next four years (and at two-fifths the price). I loved the fact that he turned it up a notch last September when the Indians were trying to catch Chicago. I really love the fact that he's 26 years old, with three full major league seasons under his belt ... and everyone who plays fantasy baseball knows that hitters usually make The Leap in their fourth full season. I really, REALLY love the fact that the Sports Gal heard me talking on the phone about him, tapped me on the shoulder and said, "Wait, his name is Coco Crisp? Coco Crisp? That's really his name?" And considering the other available options, I was delighted that the Sox acquired a first-rate centerfielder.


One problem: They overpaid for him. Crisp was worth more to the Red Sox than he was for the Indians, the Indians knew it ... and they squeezed the Sox in the process. Cleveland's GM Mark Shapiro, (not the same Mark Shapiro who once greenlighted "ESPN Hollywood") even said as much, explaining that they knew Crisp has the most value as a centerfielder, but since they already had Grady Sizemore there, Crisp was stuck in left field (diminishing his intrinsic value as a player). But since the Sox desperately needed a centerfielder, and since the organization didn't want to look bad after the whole Theo-leaves-Theo-waffles-Theo-returns soap opera, they wanted to get this trade done so everyone back home would stop complaining, "It's almost February, we don't have a centerfielder or shortstop yet!" So they overpaid for a guy Cleveland didn't really need. Shapiro even said as much, telling reporters this weekend, "It was too much to turn down."


Here's the problem: To obtain Crisp, the Sox gave up a package including young third baseman Andy Marte, who's considered one of the best prospects in the league and someone with Scott Rolen's ceiling. Trading Marte straight-up for Crisp would have been slightly overpaying the Indians -- Crisp has a B-plus/A-minus celing, while Marte has an A/A-plus ceiling. But because the Indians were holding them hostage, the Sox had to sweeten the deal even beyond Marte (it turned out to be a 7-player trade). Everyone in Boston seems to be okay with this. In fact, I was okay with it ... until I read Shapiro's "it was too much to turn down" quote.


That got me thinking. The reason I wasn't attached to Marte was because the Sox only had him for seven weeks (when they acquired him from Atlanta in the bizarre Renteria trade). Unlike any other Hot Boston Prospect, I didn't have a history with him. Usually with these things, you start hearing about Hot Boston Prospect early on, either after they draft him or Gammons drops his first "the Red Sox think that Andy Marte has a chance to become the next Mike Schmidt" comment. Then the process begins. You start checking his minor league stats, checking out the various Top 100 lists to see if he made any of them, getting excited every time someone mentions him on a message board. It's almost like a courtship process. You need a few dates before you're hooked. And by the time Hot Boston Prospect is ready for the majors, you feel like YOU'RE ready for him.


The Marte thing unfolded differently -- when he randomly landed on the Sox mid-December, it was almost like getting a $10,000 plasma TV accidentally delivered to your house. Wait, are you sure? That's mine? Nobody had a chance to digest the fact that, "Hold on a second, we have one of the top prospects in baseball on our team right now." We didn't get to see him play, read any of those "Holy crap these guy's good!" quotes from spring training, ogle his minor league stats or anything else. So when the Sox traded him, most fans found this perfectly acceptable. Like never opening the box with the $10,000 plasma TV, then trading it for $7,500 worth of stereo equipment. After all, we needed the stereo equipment (in this case, Crisp). We didn't need the plasma. So the trade was done and that's that.


I just wonder if, at some point down the line, it's going to sink in that the Great Andy Marte belonged to the Red Sox for seven weeks ... and then they traded him away in a package for Coco Crisp that was so loaded, it resulted in the other GM saying, "It was too much to turn down."
Because that would suck.
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ABJ

1/31/06

Major League Baseball

Indian deserves his recognition

Sockalexis played in Cleveland, was first true Indian in baseball

Associated Press

<!-- begin body-content -->ORONO, MAINE - Louis Sockalexis, the Penobscot Indian who played for the Indians, again should be considered the first American Indian to play in the major leagues, the author of a book about Sockalexis said.
In 1963, a National Baseball Hall of Fame historian pronounced a Sioux Indian named James Madison Toy as the first.
But author Ed Rice says that he has obtained Toy's death certificate in Pennsylvania, and it lists his race as ``white.''
``It's time for a sorrowful 43-year-old hoax to come to an end. Locally, regionally and nationally, it is time to restore the title `First American Indian' to the man who earned it -- Louis Sockalexis,'' Rice said.
Rice is the author of Baseball's First Indian: Louis Sockalexis: Penobscot Legend, Cleveland Indian, and has long claimed that Sockalexis was the first Indian to play in the major leagues.
Sockalexis, who grew up on Maine's Indian Island, was a gifted athlete whose exploits at Holy Cross and Notre Dame propelled him to the majors in 1897.
He ended up playing only 94 major league games, batting .313 for the Cleveland Spiders before his career was cut short from alcoholism. Still, it's believed he was the inspiration for the Spiders to change their name to the Indians.
Toy played two seasons between 1887 and 1890.
Rice, who released his findings at the University of Maine's Alfond Arena, said the late Hall of Fame historian Lee Allen proclaimed in 1963 that Toy was the first player in the majors with an Indian background.
Rice said Allen's evidence was based on a relative's statement that Toy was of Sioux heritage and that no other evidence supports the claim.
The death certificate, which Rice received on Jan. 16, lists James Madison Toy as ``white'' under the category ``color of race.''
Rice said he wants the Hall of Fame to recognize Sockalexis for his achievements the way it recognizes the achievements of black, Hispanic and women players. Sockalexis was the target of racial epithets and taunting when he played, much the way Jackie Robinson was treated 50 years later as the first black major leaguer, Rice said.
Brad Horn, spokesman for the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, N.Y., said the Hall would look at the death certificate once Rice sends it. It's unlikely the Hall of Fame would make any proclamation about Sockalexis, but his picture and information might be displayed if warranted, he said.
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CPD

1/31/06


PUT IT IN WRITING


<H1 class=red>Crisp deal a head-scratcher

</H1>

Tuesday, January 31, 2006



I'm a longtime Indians fan living in the Boston area. I know both teams pretty well, and I know the Indians are serving the Red Sox just what they need on a silver platter. This deal is the worst the Indians have made in years.

Not only do they lose one of the best leadoff hitters in the game with great speed and good fielding, they give him to a competitor whose primary need is a player just like Coco. I don't get this deal at all. The Indians' main problem last season was scoring runs to support their starting pitchers.

Coco Crisp was one of the key elements the Indians needed to keep for on-base percentage and add some timely hitting. It's just irritating to see them up to their old tricks of trading proven talent for unproven prospects.

John Hunter
Waltham, Mass.
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Coco Crisp was one of the key elements the Indians needed to keep for on-base percentage and add some timely hitting. It's just irritating to see them up to their old tricks of trading proven talent for unproven prospects.
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the guy cleveland traded for as a replacement has a higher OBP. this is probably one of the same dingleberries that was bitching when cleveland traded for sizemore, lee, pronk etc...
 
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I could have sworn that Sizemore was the lead off hitter last season because Crisp didn't have the OBP to lead off.

I'll listen to writers from Ohio that think this is a good trade, and writers from Boston that think they will find out this trade was a mistake. If Boone starts out this season like he did last season it sounds like we might see Marte sooner rather than later. From what I've heard the Indians have outfielders in the farm system that will be better corner outfielders than Crisp in a year or 2.
 
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tsteele316 said:
the guy cleveland traded for as a replacement has a higher OBP. this is probably one of the same dingleberries that was bitching when cleveland traded for sizemore, lee, pronk etc...
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I agree that he's overreacting here, but most of his article is absolutely true. Coco was a known commodity. Michaels and Marte are not. Michaels could be perfectly servicable. He could also wind up being the next Jason DuBois. Marte could be great. He could also wind up a career minor leaguer. Coco - even if he doesn't improve, which is highly unlikely - is and will be for the forseeable future a very solid player. Borderline all-star, if you ask me. Now, I'm not saying I think this trade is as much of a stinker as this dingleberry does. 99% of the reason I didn't like it is because of how much I like Coco as an individual player. He's one of my keepers in a high-stakes fantasy baseball league. I picked him up at the start of the 2004 season for thirty cents (average salary is about $1.20), and have had him ever since. I stuck up for him when people said Sizemore would squeeze him back into the minors, and he won me a lot of money when he broke the 15 HR mark that year. I just think he's a cool guy to have on your club. He's an Anderson Varejao. Is he your best player? Of course not. But he's fun, energetic, and he plays a very important role on the team. I think the one thing that people underestimate is Coco's potential. Like Anderson, he's already good, but shit...he's still very, very young. He very likely has not peaked yet. I'd take an even money bet that Coco posts a 20/20 year in his first couple seasons in Boston, with a better average and OBP. He's being given the keys to a brand new car, and I think he'll take full advantage. I definitely trust Shapiro to do what's best for the team. Doesn't mean I won't be watching a lot more Red Sox games this year.
 
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vrbryant said:
Oh, you were absolutely right. I still think Coco would have led off this year for the Tribe.

Coco
Jhonny
Grady
Victor
Pronk
Ronnie
blahblahblah
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I just hope this trade helps to take care of the "blahblahblah" like back in the 90's when you could go down the line up 1-9 and say "how the hell do you beat these guys?" Too bad they didn't have as good of pitching back then.
 
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