Illinois Fighting Illini (you'll see)

[BengalsAndBucks]

Clearly, he doesn't offer anyone who is just a borderline D1 talent. Most of the players that he has offered, we have offered or are seriously considering offering.

Zook is doing what he needs to do to compete in recruiting at a Big Ten school with little football tradition and limited athletic facilities. He is getting on recruits early and he is recruiting them hard. Nothing he is doing is even close to unethical or any way morally wrong. You are only upset because he is actually having some success with his approach, and got a couple of early commitments that we might have gotten pre-Zook.

Remember, Zook has little to sell to these kids besides one decent year with the hopes that they will keep improving and the prospects of early playing time and the chance to be a star instead of just one of the guys. So he has to make up for that by reminding them that he was the first to offer them, and he has been there the whole way, and he really cares about them (which he probably does).

Cincinnati is taking the same recruiting strategy this year, but I don't hear anyone in an uproar about that. Probably because they haven't gotten a commitment from one of the best players in Ohio. Zook is good recruiter who is taking the approach needed to get quality players to Champaign, simple as that.

 

[briegg]

This year for Illinois reminds me of Iowa a couple of years ago - they had a successful year and started to make huge recruiting progress (it must have been the class that signed in 2005). Seems like the winds have changed.

 

[BB73]

Clearly, he doesn't offer anyone who is just a borderline D1 talent. Most of the players that he has offered, we have offered or are seriously considering offering.

Zook is doing what he needs to do to compete in recruiting at a Big Ten school with little football tradition and limited athletic facilities. He is getting on recruits early and he is recruiting them hard. Nothing he is doing is even close to unethical or any way morally wrong. You are only upset because he is actually having some success with his approach, and got a couple of early commitments that we might have gotten pre-Zook.

Remember, Zook has little to sell to these kids besides one decent year with the hopes that they will keep improving and the prospects of early playing time and the chance to be a star instead of just one of the guys. So he has to make up for that by reminding them that he was the first to offer them, and he has been there the whole way, and he really cares about them (which he probably does).

Cincinnati is taking the same recruiting strategy this year, but I don't hear anyone in an uproar about that. Probably because they haven't gotten a commitment from one of the best players in Ohio. Zook is good recruiter who is taking the approach needed to get quality players to Champaign, simple as that.

Well said, B&B.

 

[OrangeRoughy]

Long time reader, first time poster

Zook is doing what he needs to do to compete in recruiting at a Big Ten school with Zook is doing what he needs to do to compete in recruiting at a Big Ten school with little football tradition and limited athletic facilities. He is getting on recruits early and he is recruiting them hard. Nothing he is doing is even close to unethical or any way morally wrong. You are only upset because he is actually having some success with his approach, and got a couple of early commitments that we might have gotten pre-Zook.

Remember, Zook has little to sell to these kids besides one decent year with the hopes that they will keep improving and the prospects of early playing time and the chance to be a star instead of just one of the guys. So he has to make up for that by reminding them that he was the first to offer them, and he has been there the whole way, and he really cares about them (which he probably does).

Cincinnati is taking the same recruiting strategy this year, but I don't hear anyone in an uproar about that. Probably because they haven't gotten a commitment from one of the best players in Ohio. Zook is good recruiter who is taking the approach needed to get quality players to Champaign, simple as that

Thought I'd join the fray over here. I'm a 1996 Illinois grad, football season ticket holder, and OCD Illini fan. This place has long been one of top recruiting information sources, and for some reason, today, I decided to join the discussion. I bring great anti-Michigan credentials, the best of which being my recent outing of a Michigan fan on the Illiniboard who signed up under the username "LonglivetheChief" so he could troll as a fake Illini fan. Alas, twas his defense of Mike Hart as a pro prospect that outed him and did him in.

The post quoted above seems to be a vary fair evaluation of Zook. I will only correct one minor thing. I'll take issue with "a Big Ten school with little football tradition and limited athletic facilities". I don't blame the poster - it's an indictment on our PR department more than anything. We DO have top notch facilities now, and once the stadium renovations are complete in August, I think our facilities will be 4th in the conference behind OSU, Michigan, and Penn State. And as far as tradition goes, we may not have the Rose Bowls and National Championships that some of the conference blue bloods have, but we do have Red Grange and Dick Butkus. The former was just named the #1 college football player of all time by ESPN, and the latter was one of the top 5 college defensive players of all time. To me, this sets us apart from the Wisconsins, Purdues and Iowas of the world in the ability to build a program and maintain it. Selling the new facilities and the tradition should help us to maintain the climb we've made. And Zook is just the recruiter to do it.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. Sorry so long - I promise to be more succinct in future posts.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Welcome to BP, OrangeRoughy.

I must say that I don't really have much awareness of the quality of the facilities at UI, but I certainly agree that you've got a proud history and tradition that may have been somewhat forgotten in the past 2 decades or so. I believe that Illinois is our #2 rival after Michigan and look forward to the Illini stepping up the overall quality of Big Ten play.

 

[OrangeRoughy]

...

There's been a huge upgrade in the facilites this decade. First was the new indoor practice facility built 4, maybe 5 years ago. Before that, during inclement weather, we practiced in the old National Guard Armory, or, during the early spring, in an inflatable bubble.

Next was the stadium upgrades. Similar to what Wisconsin did a while back, the upper portions of the west stands are currently being demolished to build 110 suites, indoor club, new press box (replacing what we Illini fans affectionately called "the double wide"), and new club seats. It will all open this fall as we trounce Eastern Illinois while wearing Butkus era throwback jerseys. Maybe the PR department is starting to figure some things out.

We also enclosed the north end of the stadium with a new student section (north end zone used to be 15 rows of portable metal bleachers - seriously). That opened last fall and was a huge hit. During the beatdowns of Wisconsin and PSU, that north end zone was rockin'. Underneath the north end zone seats will be the new weightroom (billed as the largest in the country). The windows from the weightroom look out onto the field. Should be a huge recruiting plus.

After 25 years as an Illini football fan, I think I can finally say that we're on the right track.

 

[OrangeRoughy]

This year for Illinois reminds me of Iowa a couple of years ago - they had a successful year and started to make huge recruiting progress (it must have been the class that signed in 2005). Seems like the winds have changed.

I recently researched some interesting recruiting numbers. Thought I'd share them over here. All of these are using Rivals rankings, FWIW.

First, I looked at how much Ron Zook has improved Illini recruiting. Here's a comparison of Ron Turner's '02, '03, and '04 versus Ron Zook's '06, '07, and '08 classes (I left '05 out of the equations since it was half-Turner, half-Zook):

4 and 5-star recruits in Turner's last three classes:
E.B. Halsey
Kelvin Hayden
Lonnie Hurst
Martin O'Donnell (5-star)
Sam Carson

4 and 5-star recruits in Zook's last three classes:
Jeff Cumberland
Chris Duvalt
Chris James
Rahkeem Smith
Marques Wilkins
Juice Williams
Arrelious Benn (5-star)
Mark Jackson
D'Angelo McCray
Anthony Morris
Craig Wilson
Martez Wilson (5-star)
Reggie Ellis
Hubie Graham
Donsay Hardemann
Corey Liuget
Graham Pocic
Cordale Scott

Then I looked at the breakdown of the 4 and 5-star recruits in the Big Ten over the last three years. As you can see, Illinois is gaining fast, and schools like Iowa and Purdue are falling away fast:

Ohio St. 34
Michigan 33
Penn St. 27
Illinois 18
MSU 11
Wisconsin 10
Minnesota 8
Iowa 7
Purdue 3
NW 0
Indiana 0

The last two Illini classes have also been ranked above Penn State. With '09 recruiting off to a great start for Zook with Fellows and Hill, I think Illinois could easily find themselves as the solid #3 program in the Big Ten. And with Michigan looking at the possiblity of Steven Threet throwing to 3-star Junior Hemingway over the next few seasons, who's to say that the Illini can't be a solid #2 giving OSU a run for their money?

 

[sandgk]

OrangeRoughy - the only unfortunate aspect of the Stadium project is that it provides for a net reduction in total seats from 69K current to about 65K proposed. Thus, if there is continued growth in their program, or sustained prominence in the Big 10, they will have to re-do the Stadium once again.

(In the meantime, from the perspective of a Buckeye fan, the loss of the 4K seats lessens the likelihood of U of I being a good choice for picking up way game seats).

 

[Muck]

Then I looked at the breakdown of the 4 and 5-star recruits in the Big Ten over the last three years. As you can see, Illinois is gaining fast, and schools like Iowa and Purdue are falling away fast:

I'd be willing to bet that if you checked the years prior that you'd find that Iowa & Purdue aren't falling away so much as staying put. I don't recall either program having an excess of bluechippers in their classes over the years.

 

[OrangeRoughy]

I'd be willing to bet that if you checked the years prior that you'd find that Iowa & Purdue aren't falling away so much as staying put. I don't recall either program having an excess of bluechippers in their classes over the years.

Neither team has recruited like Ohio State or Michigan before, but both have seen a drop in recruiting over the past few years. From 2003 to 2005, Iowa pulled in 14 blue chippers (4 and 5-star players). From 2006 to 2008, they pulled in 7, including zero this past recruiting season. Combine that with players like Douglas getting kicked off the team, and they're in trouble. We might see a little spike from them as the very talented 2005 class reaches their upperclassmen years, but after that, look out below.

As for Purdue, they pulled in 11 blue chippers from '03 to '05. From '06 to '08? 3. And this isn't even mentioning how their "solid base of 3-star players" has become a "solid base of 2-star, MAC level players". Trust me, us Illinois fans consider ourselves the Big Ten experts on "when recruiting slips - not just the blue chippers, but when the 3-stars become 2-stars - the bottom falls out". See Lou Tepper's recruiting after Mackovic, and Ron Turner's recruiting after he made a BCS bowl game. Each man thought they could de-emphasize recruiting and "coach-em-up", and each man experienced 0-fer seasons.

For Illinois to make a climb up the Big Ten ladder, we need the other mid-level teams to fall back. And we're happy that Purdue, Minnesota, and Iowa have obliged.

 

[osugrad21]

Neither team has recruited like Ohio State or Michigan before, but both have seen a drop in recruiting over the past few years. From 2003 to 2005, Iowa pulled in 14 blue chippers (4 and 5-star players). From 2006 to 2008, they pulled in 7, including zero this past recruiting season. Combine that with players like Douglas getting kicked off the team, and they're in trouble. We might see a little spike from them as the very talented 2005 class reaches their upperclassmen years, but after that, look out below.

As for Purdue, they pulled in 11 blue chippers from '03 to '05. From '06 to '08? 3. And this isn't even mentioning how their "solid base of 3-star players" has become a "solid base of 2-star, MAC level players". Trust me, us Illinois fans consider ourselves the Big Ten experts on "when recruiting slips - not just the blue chippers, but when the 3-stars become 2-stars - the bottom falls out". See Lou Tepper's recruiting after Mackovic, and Ron Turner's recruiting after he made a BCS bowl game. Each man thought they could de-emphasize recruiting and "coach-em-up", and each man experienced 0-fer seasons.

For Illinois to make a climb up the Big Ten ladder, we need the other mid-level teams to fall back. And we're happy that Purdue, Minnesota, and Iowa have obliged.

Excellent perspective.

If Zook can grab the 5-8 top tier Illinois prospects every year and grab a few out of Ohio, he is hurting Michigan and ND also. That forces the Blue to rely even more on national prospects...and that is a crap shoot.

I can see Michigan State making strides over the next few years and possibly even Minnesota.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

A post from Illinois Scout Boards. Thought it was so entertaining I'd share:

I know...I said this the other day. Illinois is about to become DL, DB, WR, and OL U. With a shot at RB and TE U. The number of pro prospects (And top flight pro prospects at that) Illinois is about to turn out is going to be CRAZY...

They must bake up some serious rock crack in Champaign. Illinois hasn't had a first-round pick since 1996. Only one year since then (2003) did they have more than two players picked in a year. Here's their draftees since from 1997-2007:

YEAR . RND . OVR .. PLAYER .......... POS
2007 .. 7 .. 237 .. Alan Ball ........ CB
2005 .. 2 ... 60 .. Kelvin Hayden .... DB
2005 .. 4 .. 122 .. Duke Preston ...... C
2004 .. 5 .. 159 .. Sean Bubin ........ T
2004 .. 7 .. 233 .. Christian Morton . CB
2003 .. 2 ... 36 .. Eugene Wilson .... FS
2003 .. 4 .. 124 .. Brandon Lloyd .... WR
2003 .. 5 .. 160 .. David Diehl ....... G
2003 .. 5 .. 173 .. Tony Pashos ....... T
2003 .. 7 .. 226 .. Walter Young ..... WR
2002 .. 5 .. 158 .. Kurt Kittner ..... QB
2001 .. 5 .. 144 .. Marques Sullivan .. T
2001 .. 6 .. 174 .. Jameel Cook ...... RB
2000 .. 6 .. 169 .. Neil Rackers ...... K
2000 .. 7 .. 245 .. Danny Clark ...... LB
1999 .. 6 .. 197 .. J.P. Machado ...... G
1998 .. 2 ... 37 .. Robert Holcombe .. RB
1997 .. 6 .. 181 .. Dennis Stallings . LB

 

[matcar]

I was just making another spin through the recruiting board and saw another OH lineman offered by Illinois.

How many '09 offers does Illinois currently have out there? It seems like a lot! I know that Coach Zook loves recruiting and really just loves the people aspect, but I'm amazed at how much activity this guy stirs up.

 

[zincfinger]

During the beatdowns of Wisconsin and PSU, that north end zone was rockin'.

Most of what you say is level-headed. Referring to the tight wins over Wisconsin and PSU last year as "beatdowns" are the exceptions.

 

[matcar]

Most of what you say is level-headed. Referring to the tight wins over Wisconsin and PSU last year as "beatdowns" are the exceptions.

I guess you're right, but I consider any tOSU win over another team as a beatdown. So, we can probably cut some slack. FWIW, I considered the loss to Illinois a bit of a beatdown after we absolutely could not stop them on that last freakin drive. Score was close, but if you cannot stop them when you know what's coming...man that was painful to watch.