I am not all in

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

It doesn't matter what Cam Newton did. It doesn't matter what the NCAA did. What matters is what Jim Tressel did. He didn't just lie to the NCAA. He withheld information from the compliance department and his boss and publicly disgraced his employer as a result. In most jobs that would be instant termination. It's a little more than a traffic ticket.

It actually does matter what the NCAA did. It's a governing body and it needs to establish consistent rules to be taken seriously as a governing body. The NCAA is far from consistent.

Otherwise, I generally agree with your paragraph - shots about Cam Newton are irrelevant in this thread. And if Tress lied, in fact and without reasonable reason, it's more serious, relatively, than a traffic ticket.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

I understand the argument that kids are tokens. It has validity.

However, these kids, many of whom would not even be accepted into these schools if they were not big, fast, and strong, are given what many kids would love to have...free education, public adoration and social status on a pedestal, and doors opened for the rest of their lives that all of us would love to have.

With those perks comes the public criticism, the pressure, etc...but they hold the golden ticket of opportunity. Many of these kids use that opportunity the way it was intended and lead great lives with or without professional sports. However, those that abuse those perks deserve the set punishment not excuses for why they chose otherwise.

Change the rules as needed...but when you know the consequences and break the rules anyway, that is tough to defend.

I get this side of the discussion, knowing the rules and breaking is a tough thing to defend. The rule itself would bother me a shitton less if the punishment fit the crime, or the NCAA weren't so hypocritically profitable off the kids' hard work.

Or any another of 10,000 jobs only around 250 new players make the NFL every year..a scholarship doesn't guarantee an NFL career..from MoC to Leaf and so on..take the education...abide by the rules

Getting a degree doesn't guarantee you any of the other 10,000 jobs, either.

And I'm not of the camp that says these kids deserve to be restricted in a way that a pre-med student, pre-law, finance, whatever student isn't just because people envy a career in professional sports much more than other professions...

...especially since what these kids do while in college in addition to their school work (despite being directly applicable to their desired choice of profession, another issue altogether), in many cases, generates HUGE revenues for their school and other third-parties (networks, NCAA, license-holders, apparel brands, etc.)

but, yeah, yeah, I get it, they broke a rule they were aware of or should have been aware of... which is not even the debate. The debate has progressed to an insanely passionate debate about how bad Tressel is for signing a doc saying he wasn't aware of whatever it is these kids have apparently done...

Let's see:
- Oregon admitted to paying a handler, what?, $25k to get a kid.
- Auburn (allegedly, probably) paid $180k for Cam Newton (not to mention who knows how much for Fairley, others)
- St. Urban had how many arrests in his program before he "retired" this last time around?
- Reggie Bush's family got a house?


And JT didn't report (also didn't lie, just didn't tell) that kids were selling Jersey and other trinkets. These kids weren't cheating in the classroom, they didn't take PEDs, they didn't commit actual crimes, they didn't take drugs... they sold some stuff... let's get a freaking grip, Buckeye Nation... tOSU has come up with a punishment for Tressel... let's image that, just maybe given what we know about the nature of what (allegedly) transpired (pending full investigation), that it might be enough and we really want this tremendously solid guy who has done a good job managing 10 years of young guys at peak knucklehead age with minimal problems...

...and I mean real problems... Goosin' and drivin' with an AK problems... girlfriend beating problems... drug house problems... 20 kids cheating in the same class problems... huge fights at bars problems...

 

[osugrad21]

[quote='BusNative;191217;5]And JT didn't report (also didn't lie, just didn't tell) that kids were selling Jersey and other trinkets. These kids weren't cheating in the classroom, they didn't take PEDs, they didn't commit actual crimes, they didn't take drugs... they sold some stuff... let's get a freaking grip, Buckeye Nation... tOSU has come up with a punishment for Tressel... let's image that, just maybe given what we know about the nature of what (allegedly) transpired (pending full investigation), that it might be enough and we really want this tremendously solid guy who has done a good job managing 10 years of young guys at peak knucklehead age with minimal problems...

...and I mean real problems... Goosin' and drivin' with an AK problems... girlfriend beating problems... drug house problems... 20 kids cheating in the same class problems... huge fights at bars problems...[/quote]

I absolutely see your point...but I have a grip. I don't want to be those other programs...I don't want to get away with it. The last part of your quoted post is where my issue lies...justifying things on a scale of (im)morality. That's not for me. The kids knew they were wrong and JT knew he was wrong. I am not calling for his firing, but I cannot defend any of his actions given the circumstances as they stand.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

...but I have a grip.

I assume you do

I don't want to be those other programs...

I listed all the crap to point out that tOSU is not those other programs, and shouldn't be viewed as such... punishments have been dolled out, I'm upset about the clamor for more blood from within the Buckeye fan base

I am not calling for his firing

And this is the important distinction between where you stand, and where I view those lacking a certain amount of grip to stand... them and the fire-crying theater-goers in the national media...

 

[Coopers buddy]

Signing a document that says that you don't know of any infractions in your program, when in fact you do, is awfully damning. It is a blunder to end all blunders.

I am still undecided as to whether Tress felt above the law, or just simply made a bad decision.

 

[osugrad21]

[quote='BusNative;191218;5]I assume you do



I listed all the crap to point out that tOSU is not those other programs, and shouldn't be viewed as such... punishments have been dolled out, I'm upset about the clamor for more blood from within the Buckeye fan base



And this is the important distinction between where you stand, and where I view those lacking a certain amount of grip to stand... them and the fire-crying theater-goers in the national media...[/quote]

Why you gotta get all JWinslow post-dissecting on me??

Sheesh.

 

[Gatorubet]

Why you gotta get all JWinslow post-dissecting on me??

Sheesh.

Well, since 'Bus posted something about Coach Urban and his team arrest numbers, he can't be that far away.

 

[MaxBuck]

Beano Cook says that Urban Meyer will be the next coach of the Buckeyes.

Truman Beats Dewey!!!!

 

[Jaxbuck]

I understand the argument that kids are tokens. It has validity.

However, these kids, many of whom would not even be accepted into these schools if they were not big, fast, and strong, are given what many kids would love to have...free education, public adoration and social status on a pedestal, and doors opened for the rest of their lives that all of us would love to have.

With those perks comes the public criticism, the pressure, etc...but they hold the golden ticket of opportunity. Many of these kids use that opportunity the way it was intended and lead great lives with or without professional sports. However, those that abuse those perks deserve the set punishment not excuses for why they chose otherwise.

Change the rules as needed...but when you know the consequences and break the rules anyway, that is tough to defend.

Are we talking about booing again?

 

[osugrad21]

Are we talking about booing again?

Don't boo in the stadium.

 

[Gatorubet]

I'll let you in on another little secret; Aunt Bee lived to a ripe old age for two reasons 1)she knew how to keep her legs crossed and 2) she made good pies.

I know its frowned on today but that's just how they rolled back then.

I don't get how this is "Aunt Bee's Private Uncle" Barney...

It 'pears to be just a 'ole tuna flavored cucumber...




I'll have another drink.

 

[Jake]

Beano Cook says that Urban Meyer will be the next coach of the Buckeyes.

Did he do that before or after telling us, yet again, that either Penn State or Notre Dame will win the NC next season?

 

[Onebuckfan]

Did he do that before or after telling us, yet again, that either Penn State or Notre Dame will win the NC next season?

WOW didn't know JT is hiring an OC

 

[Gatorubet]

WOW didn't know JT is hiring an OC

The Midwest is the breadbasket of the nation? Damn my agent!

 

[BUCKYLE]

I don't know how or when my comments were saying Tress or the players did nothing wrong or don't deserve punishment. That wasn't my intent. They all fucked up. They get what they get.

That being said, just because JT lied, doesn't make the NCAA credible or right. As grad said, some if not most wouldn't even be in college if not for their athletic gifts, and the hours they put into developing their gifts. The NCAA has no issue profitting like a motherfucker from those gifts, while simultaneously telling the players that an education is enough reward. If that's the case, start handing out credit hours to the people that would have otherwise recieved cash.

Also...if I'm understanding correctly...the players that go to schools such as tOSU that go to BCS bowls every year can recieve swag bags filled with five grand worth of shit...no problem there...but don't dare try to trade that Xbox360 for some tatts. It would be laughable if it weren't so horribly hypocrytical. Sanctioned payoffs to BCS athletes is ok. A gift certificate allowing the players to take a girl out or buy some new kicks...CRIMINAL!!11!! I mean, come the fuck on.