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- Thread starter Thump
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Crump's brother
Moxahala Park Carnie/ Rehoboth Strangler
I'm seeing fewer and fewer of my students choose 4 year schools every year. Trade schools, don't have the stigma (son of a millwright here) that they had 10 years ago.
Edit:if I were 18 I would get my ass to a welding school asap.
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Zurp
I have misplaced my pants.
I have a 4-year degree (engineering).
I co-op'd in college, and my boss (his title was "engineer") did not have a college degree.
My full-time job for 17 years out of college was in the engineering department, where I was the only one with a college degree. My boss, the engineering manager, did not have a college degree. And my job had zero to do with what I did in college. NOTHING. However, when the VP, who did have an engineering degree, as well as a professional engineer, retired, I went and got my professional engineering license, and that bumped me way up in pay. So, in that sense, my engineering degree was really helpful. Plus, I've been passed over several times during layoffs because they think we NEED degreed engineers and professional engineers. We really don't, but I won't tell them that.
I could teach anyone with a simple understanding of electrical circuits how to do most of what I do.
In 24 years at this company, I have had 7 managers. 3 have/had college degrees. The best two did not have college degrees. The worst two also did not have college degrees.
There are plenty of professions that require college degrees, and many require grad school.
But there are many that do not require college degrees. Plumbers always seem to charge me a shitload of money. Go learn to be a plumber. Or an electrician. Or some other contractor.
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One of the problems facing high school grads today is the unpredictability of the future job market. Five years ago, the conventional wisdom was to master Python and R and get a data science qualification. Now, it looks like AI is going to be the go to tool for coding. My personal thinking is that the world of work will change radically over the next three decades, creating a world where people share jobs, work 20-24 hours a week, earn less but have much better quality of life. An understanding of how to manage human relationships within the organization and with stakeholders will become far more important.
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The kids that would have been drawn to Python and R are still going to be drawn to STEM type stuff and their degrees will be valuable most likely because whatever they do they can evolve with over the years. The problem, and I don't know if the AP picked it as their case (see article I posted this morning) because it was "oh look a this poor person that has chosen this major and its a shame they won't get a degree in musical therapy" or it was more of a "we're going to pick this and this girl is obviously impacted but why is this even a thing?" but the problem here is, their are a bunch of expensive degrees and for a number of reasons from demographics on down to value, people aren't paying. If the story was "Engineering depts at Ohio State are closing for lack of interest" then there's a different underlying issue.
I have bad news, its just not going to go this way. Maybe there will be professions that culturally align to this, but, I've worked at companies that really really really try to live these kinds of values, and the minute their market position and/or revenue is hit, their credit line becomes a burden, the expectation is that unlimited paid time off also means don't take any time off and that mantra of "we don't want anyone overloaded" turns into a 50% workforce reduction and all that work still needs to get done. And that's just external pressures, people still compete for promotions etc.
Always has been.
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DubCoffman62
Lazy Slob
I don't know what it's like in Ohio but here it seems native born kids have surrendered those jobs to the central American immigrant. It's hard to compete these days when you have a legit business, licensed, bonded and insured and you're competing for work with Carlos, Jose and his compas that work out of the back of their truck and charge less than half. The company that provides out porters are owned by immigrants and 100% of the workers that I have gotten to know are here without papers. If you're a native born kid that wants to get on a roofing crew or a construction crew you're SOL, the workers are very tribal and if you're not one of them or speak their language they'll make you feel very unwelcome.
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You are not describing trade school careers.
Think high tech maintenance. That’s the current shortage.
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We are NOT victims. I barely passed the required statistics course at Ohio State. I am dyslexic. Greek letters and mathematical notation made no sense to me. I read basic stats books and worked the examples again and again. Then, I bought and read more advanced books again and again. Stumbling my way through them for 20 years.
We have a TLDNR generation that lives in digital distraction often unwilling to spend any time in critical thought but unable to pull away from Tik Tok.
Riding a bus in Shanghai, a laborer was reading a Masters level refrigeration engineering text. I've seen that in India too. It is common.
When my black graduating students could not get jobs during the Apartheid years, I urged them to approach leading companies with the proposition that they would work for free for 3 months in exchange for a letter documenting their work. Every one of them was on the payroll before the first month ended. I run into them as top executives today.
While the world cannot be generalized so simply as I do above, the core of what I see is that the next generation is being won now. One cannot be a victim, investing in oneself, one must enter the ring, take the lumps, and outwork the others.
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BuckBackHome
Wolverine is largest member of weasel family
Something not mentioned much here is just the shifting demographics. Simply not enough college-aged kids here anymore. The potential "candidate pool" is much smaller than years past, but so many colleges have had their heads in the sand thinking they will more than enough applicants, like they did even 15 years ago. It is an interesting time.
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I remember conference calls between Ohio State and other leading US and international business schools about future application numbers two decades ago. Every school projected dropping applications except those in emerging markets. With the equivalence provided by rigorous international accreditation agencies, we started seeing applications increasing dramatically from higher-income countries, especially from Western Europe. Quality perceptions also have shifted. Students want truly global perspectives in the classroom that a lot of Top 200 international business schools aren't known to deliver. Add to that the economic shocks of the last decade and I suspect that international applications are declining.
By the way, check out Ohio State's Fisher COB rankings along such lines. A dramatic and positive change in recent years.
By the way, check out Ohio State's Fisher COB rankings along such lines. A dramatic and positive change in recent years.
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DubCoffman62
Lazy Slob
I used to live right across the main road from this campus. I used to see the students around at the grocery store and many rented houses in my neighborhood. Never realized what a prestigious school it is. ASU bought them and moved the campus downtown. The old campus is now Arizona Christian
Thunderbird School of Global Management
Thunderbird School of Global Management - The vanguard of global leadership, management, and business education for the digital age.
thunderbird.asu.edu
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ORD_Buckeye
Wrong glass, Sir.
Fisher has de-assed its head in recent years. Any ideas why?
As for applications, we've been setting records lately with over 80K for this year's freshman class. Personally, I think we should be rejecting more kids. We don't need 8K freshman classes. Drop our acceptance rate from roughly a half down to about a third and get the classes to around 6500. Maybe make some deal with the state. Get our separate funding appropriation, which was taken from us in the 60s, put back in place in exchange for setting a ton of well qualified kids free for the other schools.
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calibuck
Too soon old, too late smart
Most of us were taught by our parents that, "where are you going to college", not IF you're going to college or not. Always a foregone conclusion, and yes, that's what we taught our daughter. When I went to college, lo these many decades ago, there were certainly elements of knowledge that I retained, used, and profited by, but mostly, it shows that one can do something for four years. Other than medicine, engineering, music, and probably more that I have not listed, all of us were 'trained' by the companies when we were hired. Even after MBA school, our OJT was premier, but we did use some techniques. Colleges have ALWAYS done a disservice to the people, by offering a field of study, but NOT by saying whether you would be qualified for a job. Education is large example. Say Ohio State graduates 500 elementary ed teachers a year. OK, fine, also recognize that the other 20 or so colleges graduate 200-400 el ed teachers as well. There simply not enough teacher retirees (or growth positions), to absorb all of those newbie teachers, within the greater Franklin County area. So what do they do. Well, anything that offers a paycheck, probably not in the education field. Just something I'm familiar with, but after you're graduated, pretty much on your own. This vaulted a graduate degree into a more prominent place, and now, even that star is diminishing. Bit of a ramble, but there are kernals of truth here, I believe.
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