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- Thread starter 3yardsandacloud
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Don't even start that shit...coaching is coaching, regardless of level. His players were I-AA players just as were the players of his opponents. Hell, Tressel had a 22-1 run in playoff games--the best of the best in I-AA--at one point...
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High Lonesome
Hook 'Em
Mili, I would call JT's run impressive...but coaching is not coaching regardless of level. If that were true then Carrol would still be in the NFL or my highschool coach would have stayed in college
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It probably is unfair, but that's not the point. First impressions are what matter, his legacy was already being written in his first few years -- this is a challenge that any coach at the top ten to twenty D1A football powers is going to have to live with. Stoops, Ferentz, Tressel, Carroll, Meyer are all writing their legacies now, hell ... Weis did it in one year.
Remember, Stoops won it in year two with Oklahoma. Tressel repeated that feat at OSU, so the bar was already set by the 2002 season, prompting people to wonder 'Why hasn't Mack done it? He's had five years!'
As an OSU/Big-Ten fan who has watched Texas from afar, Brown inexplicably committed the cardinal sin of juggling QBs (Simms/Applewhite), then did it again after he should've learned his lesson (Mock/Young), and now sounds as if he's on the verge of doing this a third time! He had teams that seemed to end their season in a slide ('99, '00) and lost big against Oklahoma despite having arguably more talent. Win or lose, there were a bunch of 40-point games allowed to Texas Tech, and even the Michael Bishop-era KSU teams were winning by double digits. That shouldn't happen at a place like Texas.
There were good wins, true, but the bad losses stood out worse. It will take Brown several years and probably another Big-XII title or two without VY to eliminate that stigma.
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MyMamaTastesFunny
All-American
Again, the sagging "weak Big 12" argument. Two teams predicted in the top ten from the same division.
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Yeah, because Jim Donnan who coached (then) 1AA Marshall wasn't a D1A coach. Same with (then) 1AA Boise State ... what a bunch of scrub programs he went 4-of-6 against in national title games.
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3yardsandacloud
Administrator Emeritus
OK Xray, I think that was the whole point of my post. It's more than a bit disingenuous to state your qualifications AFTER you've made your statements ... and been 'called' on them. At least you admit to them. I give you some credit for that. That's more than UTMNC can muster.
"Lower division wins are in no way comparable." Hyperbole ... that is your opinion and should be stated as such. Maybe you should contact the folks at Mack Brown Texas Football and ask that they remove Mack's Appalachian State record from his coaching record.
Lastly, you've crafted your argument to weight Mack's accomplishments in the best possible light. I don't fault you for it ... it's obviously what you do best ... take some stats and spin them. Should we START at the beginning of Mack's coaching career and see how many coaches have been better over any range of years? I mean, how often do you start at the end and go backwards?
Conceptually I don't have a problem with many of the points you attempt to make. It's the shortcuts you take to make a point that lend you little credibility. You try and paint Mack as the best 1 or 2 coaches in CFB, when in fact, by the parameters you describe, he isn't. Further, you admit, even by the qualifications you later add to your premise, he STILL isn't number 1 or 2. Judging by your post, you knew this to be the case before making the original statement. For shame. If you want to post here and play the part of statistical guru, then come correct ... or don't bother. Attempting to 'bury' any rebuttal of your arguments with a mountain of statistical information won't work. Maybe "that dog will hunt" at your place of work, but not here. :tongue2:
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For someone who loves stats so much, it cracks me up that you are so willing to throw them out when it doesn't support your point. Then you make a blanket statement like this without researching it first.
Keep in mind that there are crappy coaches at every level. I wouldn't assume that since it is DIAA that all the coaches are "inferior". There are just as many bad coaches in IAA as there are in IA.
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footballfanatic said:
Welcome boys and girls. Today's letter is the letter S, brought to you by the words Sarcasm, and Smiley.
Do pay attention next time.
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EngineerHorn
No todo alli
This is a good point that I hadn't thought of. I can buy that.
On the rest, you're right, the big losses stood out more than the big wins. I think that's because the stigma snowballed from his UNC years where he had a top ten team but couldn't beat FSU. The media and fans alike just caught on and his reputation was born. It didn't help matters that he came in, won 9 games with a pretty untalented (save for a handful of players) team of Mackovic recruits, and promptly signed two top recruiting classes. That built expectations to an unreasonable level despit having a team with very little depth. Case and point: SI picked us to win the 2000 MNC.
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Well if they were good at those levels they would still be there.High Lonesome said:
I don't understand the "lesser competition" thing for DI-AA (not you HL, xray). The competition is equal if it's DI playing DI or DI-AA playing DI-AA. It's not like he was playing DI-AA with DI talent.
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zincfinger
Gert Frobe-approved
Note: this post is not about Brown or Tressel's reputation, it's about the Texas/OSU game.
The X-factors for each team - Texas's's's wet-behind-the-ears quarterbacks and OSU's largely repopulated starting defense - have been brought up many times here, but am I the only one that thinks each of those factors is nearly impossible to predict at this point, and that the week 1 games for each team will be extremely revealing, despite being against mid-major opponents? Each team seems to have the potential of being either a legitimate national championship contender, or a good team with an obvious flaw, and it seems damn tough to predict which way it will go for either without seeing the new starters on the field at least once.
The X-factors for each team - Texas's's's wet-behind-the-ears quarterbacks and OSU's largely repopulated starting defense - have been brought up many times here, but am I the only one that thinks each of those factors is nearly impossible to predict at this point, and that the week 1 games for each team will be extremely revealing, despite being against mid-major opponents? Each team seems to have the potential of being either a legitimate national championship contender, or a good team with an obvious flaw, and it seems damn tough to predict which way it will go for either without seeing the new starters on the field at least once.
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Yeah, and he did so with lesser personnel. Sheesh, why is that so hard to understand? You really need to cease trying to break down the game of football to nothing but stats and percentages, and look at the human element.
Give a great coach D-III talent and he'll do great against D-III competition. Give a great coach I-AA talent and he'll do great against I-AA competition. Give a great coach I-A talent...see where is going (or do you)?
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