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Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

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xrayrandy said:
Once again 3 I only consider wins as a Div1A coach to be relevant. Lower division wins are in no way comparable.

As for the "ANY", it was a bit of hyperbole on my part. If you go back 20 years 1986-2005 Mack drops to third behind Bowden and Paterno, and Mack has only coached 21 years in Div1A (22 total).
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Why are lower division wins not comparable? He was playing against equivalent talent to his own, and he won with it. Sounds pretty damn comparable to me. It's not like he had Ohio State and was playing a DI-AA schedule (also known as an SEC OOC schedule).
 
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The "big game" thing did have a little bit of merit, but it was from a grand total of 6 games. OU 2000-2004 and the 2001 Big 12 CG. It also discounts what most would objectively consider big games. There are no USC or tOSU (at the shoe at night) type wins in there, but there are some.

Of those 6 big game losses, 3 were to a team that eventually played in the MNC game and one was solely due to a complete meltdown by Chris Simms.

There are other losses, yes. In hindsight, they become big games just because he lost them, thereby perpetuating Mack's image. If UT had won those not so big games, they would have never been considered big games.

Not including the 2005 season or either Rose Bowl win, I would consider these big games:

1998
#7 Texas A&M (y'all played them in the Sugar Bowl)
@ #6 Nebraska (ended a 40-something game home winning streak)
Cotton Bowl vs. #25 MSU

1999
#3 Nebraska

2000
#22 Texas A&M

2001
North Carolina (ended up ranked)
#14 Colorado
Holiday Bowl vs. #21 Washington

2002
@ #17 KSU (ended up Top 10)
@ Nebraska (ended a 20 something game winning streak)
Cotton Bowl vs #23 LSU

2003
#16 KSU
#12 Nebraska
@ #21 OSU

2004
@ #24 Texas Tech
#19 OSU
#22 Texas A&M

I can go back to his North Carolina days too.

I know what you're thinking. "EH, those aren't big games, some of those teams are barely in the Top 25"

I tend to agree. But if he lost even one of them, that loss would be pointed to as more evidence that Mack "can't win the big one."
 
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Also, the "Mack can't win a NC without VY" may very well be true. I just ask that the same standard be applied to all coaches for the sake of consistency.

I made this same list several weeks ago, but I don't think many people read it because y'all were responding to UTMNC nonsense.

If USC loses 2 games next year, will Pete Caroll "not be able to win the big one" without Leinart and Bush?

In 1996 and early '97, were people questioning whether Tom Osbourne could win one without Tommie Frazier?

Can Bob Stoops win a MNC without Jon Blake's recruits?

Can Larry Coker win a big one without Butch Davis' recruits?

Can Jim Tressel win one without MoC?

Frank Beamer can't win a big game without Mike Vick, right?

Steve Spurrier won one MNC, and that was with Danny Wueffel. He can't win a big one without Danny. In fact, he never went undefeated, so even with Danny he couldn't win the truly big one, the one he lost that year.

I could go on and on.


***By the way, thanks for the GOTP's! :biggrin:
 
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EngineerHorn said:
Also, the "Mack can't win a NC without VY" may very well be true. I just ask that the same standard be applied to all coaches for the sake of consistency.

I made this same list several weeks ago, but I don't think many people read it because y'all were responding to UTMNC nonsense.

If USC loses 2 games next year, will Pete Caroll "not be able to win the big one" without Leinart and Bush?

In 1996 and early '97, were people questioning whether Tom Osbourne could win one without Tommie Frazier?

Can Bob Stoops win a MNC without Jon Blake's recruits?

Can Larry Coker win a big one without Butch Davis' recruits?

Can Jim Tressel win one without MoC?

Frank Beamer can't win a big game without Mike Vick, right?

Steve Spurrier won one MNC, and that was with Danny Wueffel. He can't win a big one without Danny. In fact, he never went undefeated, so even with Danny he couldn't win the truly big one, the one he lost that year.

I could go on and on.


***By the way, thanks for the GOTP's! :biggrin:
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You could, but none of those coaches had the stigma before they won the NC.
 
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EH, I think the general feeling is that Mack Brown has to take an equally talented or even less talented team to the RRS and beat Oklahoma. Kicking the Sooners while they were down in '98, '99, and '05 is nothing to write home about, and any D1A team surrendering 60+ on two occassions to another D1A team, whether Oklahoma was a NC contender or not, is not a foundation for building a solid rep.

Personally, I think hiring Chizik will be more important to Brown's legacy than letting Vince be Vince, if Brown can keep Chizik for any number of years.
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
You could, but none of those coaches had the stigma before they won the NC.
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Even so, why does he have that stigma? As mentioned, Spurrier, Osbourne, and even Bobby Bowden had it. All of those coaches had similar records to Mack prior to their first MNC's.

any D1A team surrendering 60+ on two occassions to another D1A team, whether Oklahoma was a NC contender or not, is not a foundation for building a solid rep.
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I agree, but his foundation was also built on lots of wins (including in games most would consider "big"), which many people ignore.

Y'all may be right. I may be biased because of the MNC euphoria and wishful thinking, but I think Mack's reputation is unfair, or at the very least inconsistent.
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