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Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

After reading pages upon pages of the ying and yang dynamic going on between Bucks and Horns, here's my all-inclusive thread post:

Aside from the sarcasm casted by Bucks in response the Horns optimism from stats, returning talent, etc, here's the bottom line: Every argument must have a prosecutor and a defendent, and in the case of this impending showdown between tOSU and Texas, tOSU is the defendent while Texas is the prosecutor. Say what you will, but to the victor go the spoils, and Texas has already got a leg up on the Bucks in this matchup. We won the first one, and while this next one will have huge implications on our season as well as yours, the pressure is on YOU to perform.

The Buckeyes return the majority of their offense which is their calling card for optimism heading into this matchup, while Texas is starting a pair of unproven freshmen quarterbacks, of which no one expects competence. The Bucks are rebuilding a defense which they are insisting will be good, and as history indicates, always has been, however, Texas is bringing back the majority of their defense which we claim is good, yet the nation has not yet embraced. You got homefield last year, and as challenging as it was for us to do so, you failed to defend it in a game holding national title implications, while this year, we have the same advantage, however, you and others don't seem to take DKR seriously as a place to be reckoned with in such a monumental matchup this early on. You say we can't win without Vince because his leadership was irreplaceable, yet also refer to him as a "bail-out" for many plays that led us to greatness last season,and those won't be there for 2006. However, given the "leader" that Vince was, I dont' recall many leaders that merely bail-out a team from otherwise imcompetence, rather than instead inspire collective greatness by maximizing the sum of its parts, as a mentality and belief among the team. Vince's impact on this program was precisely that. Its not something thats likely to go away even as he's moved on, because the results produced by that team effort were experienced by all of its members, many of which are returning for the second go around.

Bottom line, Bucks need to be more cordial in dealing with the Texas optimism, because aside from us earning it a year ago, you may need to start considering the reality that A) if things do go the way we are asserting, you could be experiencing the same feelings you had last year all over again, and B) even if they don't, its still all on your boys to perform and even the score.
 
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Aside from the sarcasm casted by Bucks in response the Horns optimism from stats, returning talent, etc, here's the bottom line: Every argument must have a prosecutor and a defendent, and in the case of this impending showdown between tOSU and Texas, tOSU is the defendent while Texas is the prosecutor. Say what you will, but to the victor go the spoils, and Texas has already got a leg up on the Bucks in this matchup. We won the first one, and while this next one will have huge implications on our season as well as yours, the pressure is on YOU to perform.

Let me remind you that, while on the scoreboard you won, you were lucky to win. Whether you want acknowledge that or not, it's a fact. You were a dropped pass from going home with an "L". True, those things are part of the game, but you can knock it off with the arrogant "to the victors go the spoils" and "tOSU is the defendent while Texas is the prosecutor" bullshit (by the way, it's "defendant"). You will do well to remember that no defense even came close to what we did to the Texas offense...six points in over three quarters. You say the pressure is on us to perform, but you couldn't be more wrong. The pressure will be squarely on your green-as-new-grass QBs. If they perform anything like new freshmen QBs normally do, then this game will be over early...
 
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You couldn't be more convincing of exactly what I'm trying to convey, Mililani. I know it chaps your ass that you didn't win last year, and you'll find all the reasons in the world as to why it didn't happen, but how is that any different than us finding reasons for why it did??

Step outside yourself and these teams for a second and ask yourself who has more pressure on them to win: A team coming off a national title, previous matchup win, and with two freshmen QB's who are expected to play like freshmen taking the reigns, or a team that was a few plays away from the title game last year, with a juggernaut offensive unit coming back, trying to avenge last season's loss, and set the tone for a championship season?? We've got nothing to prove. We did that last year. Sure we can validate Mack sans Vince, show we're still a powerhouse, blah blah, but OU and others will be the litmus test for that. I'm not sure anyone expects us to play well enough offensively to win this one. However, we will have a team to do so, and you'd better expect it. Everyone knows what your boys are capable of, and they expect to see them perform at that level against the team that got them at home last year in order to be considered the title favorite. Spin it anyway you want, the pressure's on tOSU. More at stake this year in relation to Texas. Not a bad thing, just be ready to get the job done.
 
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Bottom line, Bucks need to be more cordial in dealing with the Texas optimism, because aside from us earning it a year ago, you may need to start considering the reality that A) if things do go the way we are asserting, you could be experiencing the same feelings you had last year all over again, and B) even if they don't, its still all on your boys to perform and even the score.

Check...check...check...

Bottom line, a handful of Texas posters need to remember they are guests on this board. How many personal arguments have we seen between our regulars and Engineer, HighLonesome, or any of the old guard of UT guys?

VERY few if any at all...

Now, add in a handful of the "UTMNC" crew...(don't take it personally, there was a huge flurry of new chest-thumpers who started posting on tOSU boards after January 2003.) Now that we have these new personalities, this thread turns into a trainwreck every few days. It goes from discussion to debate...great. Then it turns into outright trashtalk and veiled player bashing...not happening on this site.

Every tOSU fan should, by now, respect the UT team and program...however, we don't need to be forcefed the same hyperbole every day. Texas has great talent...so does tOSU. Texas lost some key players...so did tOSU. This thread gets in trouble when A) Everything about Texas is bigger, better, faster, and has more potential than anything anyone else could possibly imagine in Columbus B) ANYTHING about tOSU gets bashed (note: not criticized, critiqued, or noted but bashed) on the biggest homer board on the net C) Certain members of noted new UT contingent start telling tOSU fans what WILL happen and why we are wrong for having the same noted optimism about this team and various new players while noted UT fans claim the right to make similar assumptions and employ the same optimism.

I don't need to hear about being cordial when I know for a fact that an overwhelming majority of this board has been more than patient with most of the new Texas posters. You are in our house now...wipe your shoes outside and remove em so you don't stain the carpet. Be a good guest...and control your children.
 
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There is a difference between optimism and delusion, and 90% of the Texas fans I have encountered since this past Rose Bowl go way beyond delusional. And it isn't really Vince's leadership that is irreplaceable, it's his ability to change a game with one play. How is your team going to respond when they get down by ten points and realize, oh shit, Vince isn't here to work his magic anymore. What is your defense going to do when the offense can't move the ball and they can't get off the field. Ohio State had a fantastic defense in 2004, they just didn't have an offense capable of sustaining drives until TS came in at the end of the season, thus they were worn down on the field countless times.

Trust us when we tell you, this is a balanced offense that will be able to sustain drives and move the football. Troy Smith is a fantastic 5th year QB that brings the same intangibles to the field Vince did. We have a versatile stable of talented backs, veteran receivers with speed to burn, and a big, talented, versatile line. This is an offense that reminds Buckeye fans, and pollsters, of the great offenses here in the mid 90s. Roll your eyes, talk about how Troy didn't do this and didn't do that last year, and underestimate it all you want, but this is an offense to be reckoned with, and all you horns fans will realize it sooner or later....I'm guessing later. What had Vince done before the Rose Bowl against scUM? I seem to remember Vince not moving the ball at all against OU in 04, which was hardly an indication of things to come. The Troy Smith you all saw last September is not the Troy Smith you will be seeing September 9th.
 
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Yeah, and our WRs and RB made "big plays", too...whoopdie fucking doo. Ginn, Holmes, and Pittman had multiple plays of 40+ yards...in fact, we had 11 TDs of 40+ yards.

Yes, tOSU had 14 offensive plays over 40 yards, 9 by returning players. Texas had 19 Offensive plays over 40 yards, 12 (maybe 14) by returning players.

UT does have plenty of "big play catalysts" returning. They have more than tOSU.
 
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xrayrandy said:
Yes, tOSU had 14 offensive plays over 40 yards, 9 by returning players. Texas had 19 Offensive plays over 40 yards, 12 (maybe 14) by returning players.

UT does have plenty of "big play catalysts" returning. They have more than tOSU.
Do you ever watch football or do you spend all your time reading box scores?
 
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Yeah, and our WRs and RB made "big plays", too...whoopdie fucking doo. Ginn, Holmes, and Pittman had multiple plays of 40+ yards...in fact, we had 11 TDs of 40+ yards. Ginn also had a 100-yard kickoff TD and a 62-yard punt TD. Yet, I wouldn't call any of those "miraculous", at least without going back and looking at them again (and I already have a pretty good idea about those plays). You were talking about "miraculous" plays, like the long TD that Young had against OkSt where he pump-faked a defender about two feet into the air and then ran something like 80 yards for a TD. Or, in our case, the pass from Smith to Gonzo to set up the winning score in the final minute at Michigan...on that play, Smith avoided a sack the way only he and maybe Young could have, and then threw a perfect pass while on the run to a leaping Gonzo. Those types of plays are what you were originally talking about. Even if you weren't, our offense more than matches yours big-play-for-big-play. The thing is, we have our big play catalyst returning...you don't.

Ok, If you define "Miraculous Play" as one of the first things I think of when I think of the 2005 season then first would be Jamaal Charles' 80 yrd run straight up the gut in the RRS. Helped to break the game open and show that we could do this. Second would be Limus against the bucks falling away and pulling in the game winning touchdown. Then would be Limas Sweed's one handed grab against Baylor when he was double covered. Other than that they were all Vince and even two of those had Vince throwing the pass. Vince was the master at making your jaw drop. That said, Randy is correct when he points out that we still have plenty of players that have made big plays and/or have big play potential....they just haven't had to do anything miraculous yet
 
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I'm not real clear on the signifigance of big play potential, to be honest. I mean, so what? All that shows is that Texas and Ohio State both have "playmakers" on their rosters. Did someone doubt that before?

I would doubt that the OSU UT game is going to be won or lost on big plays... these teams are both too good. Of course, it may well happen that big plays dominate.. but I'd put long odds against that being the case. This game is going to be won or lost with field position and execution of a sound (read- conservative) game plan. Fairly typical of any game mathcing two relatively even "power houses"
 
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Yes, tOSU had 14 offensive plays over 40 yards, 9 by returning players. Texas had 19 Offensive plays over 40 yards, 12 (maybe 14) by returning players.

UT does have plenty of "big play catalysts" returning. They have more than tOSU.

Unfortunatly, for your boys, every single one of those plays involved a guy not there, Vince Young.

Im shocked by how cavalier you Texas fans are about the loss of Young. New flash.... Cedric Benson was a better back than Jamal Charles. Say what you want, foam at the mouth all you want but for a stat guy, you can't argue that point. Young had all that talent around him as a First year starter. Roy Williams was a super star in college football BJ Johnson was a great complementing reciever.

I sincerely hope that you arent going to try and sell us the idea that these rookie qb's are BETTER than Vince Young at there comparative stages of development. Lest you actually be crazy enough to put forth such an absurd supposition, Vince Young was ranked 5*'s and the #1 quarterback prospect in the country. Neither Snead or McCoy are even within sniffing range of that caliber of recruit. In fact, McCoy is a 3* Snead is probably better suited to run the zone read than McCoy but neither guy is going to be anything remotely close to Vince Young. Hell, Vince Young as a freshman wasnt remotely close to Vince Young of last year.

Oh, and before you jump and tell me how much better last years defense was let alone how much better this years defense will be....

In Vince's first year 5 yards per game passing defense seperated the 2 defenses. 22 rushing yards per game are the difference between the 2 defenses. 27 total yards per game are the difference and less than 5 points per game.

Oh and the offense? 20th in total offense, 8th in rushing and 6th in scoring. Benson better than Charles. Roy Williams and BJ Johnson better than anyone at recievers for Texas and Young better than McCoy or Snead.

The smartest thing Mack Brown ever did was start to ease Young into the game plan after the Arkansas loss. He knew that he had to have Young's running threat to take pressure off the offense. How do I know that? Look at the losses that season. Inspite of having a team that averaged 232 rushing yards Arkansas limited Texas to 67 rushing yards. They did EXACTLY what Ohio State is going to try and do. They took the running game out of the game plan and forced Mock to put the ball up 40 times. Mock played fairly well but then, Mock was a senior at the time (class not eligibility)

Put a kid with 1 game under his belt in that situation and the results are almost surely going to be disasterous.


Let me put it this way, Rob Schoenhoft was in the same recruiting class as McCoy and ranked VASTLY higher than McCoy. Schoenhoft has had moments of brillence in the spring scrimages Ive seen. In no way, shape or form do I think for even a second that the OSU offense wouldnt take a serious hit if he had to be under center vs Troy Smith. How you can think that McCoy or Snead vs Young = minimal impact is absolutely mind blowing.


I think this game is close for most of the first half and up to the latter part of the 3rd quarter. A very tired Texas defense that has spent too much time on the feild starts to get chewed up and OSU pulls away in the mid/late 4th quarter to leave with a 10 OR MORE point win.

I say:

OSU 27
Texas 17
 
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Lest you actually be crazy enough to put forth such an absurd supposition, Vince Young was ranked 5*'s and the #1 quarterback prospect in the country. Neither Snead or McCoy are even within sniffing range of that caliber of recruit

I'm not saying he will be Vince....but Jevan Snead is in "sniffing range"

He was the #3 ranked QB out of High School and #61 on the rivals top 100

Thats a pretty darn good recruit...

and no, I don't think he will be as good as young was last year but there is a chance he will be a better passer than young was his freshman year and its a pretty decent chance at that
 
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and no, I don't think he will be as good as young was last year but there is a chance he will be a better passer than young was his freshman year and its a pretty decent chance at that

Hard to disagree with that, considering the knock on Young was his passing... Hell, even up to the begining of last year, how many times did you hear, "Young's great with his feet, but he's got to improve in the passing game" Of course, he did, but when he was a Freshman, if I'm not mistaken, when the game was calling for passing yards, Chance Mock was at the helm.
 
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There is a difference between optimism and delusion, and 90% of the Texas fans I have encountered since this past Rose Bowl go way beyond delusional.

And I would say 90% of the UT fans I talk to are cautiously optimistic at best. If these fans are being put in a position to be defensive, of course they're going to fire off superlatives and hyperbole, making you think they're delusional. That's what people (on both sides, hell, on any side of any argument) do when they're presented with stuff like:

What had Vince done before the Rose Bowl against scUM? I seem to remember Vince not moving the ball at all against OU in 04, which was hardly an indication of things to come.

Vince had done plenty before that Rose Bowl by the way. All I can say is look at the box scores- including his freshman year.
 
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Yes, tOSU had 14 offensive plays over 40 yards, 9 by returning players. Texas had 19 Offensive plays over 40 yards, 12 (maybe 14) by returning players.

so you don't know how many big plays your team had? or you don't know which big play guys from your team is returning? i find it interesting that your positive about the #'s for the bucks but seem to be tossing out a "wag" on your longhorns. oh and p.s. if only 12 of those players are returning... WE have a higher % of big play guys returning to big plays created so neener neener neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnneeeeeeerrrrr!!

UT does have plenty of "big play catalysts" returning. They have more than tOSU.


dude... my dad can sooooooooooooo beat up your dad!

so concludes my trip down memory lane to the 2nd grade.
 
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