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Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

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UTMNC said:
"Competition in the Big 12" I would say they have represented fairly well since 1996, "If" playing in the MNC game is a reliable indicator.
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It's a horrible indicator, and here's why.... It's "easy" to go undefeated in a weak conference... = More Championship appearances...



Do you want me to post my Big XII analysis I did as a blog a year or so ago? You'll see some stuff about the Big XII (Understanding that the piece is written in a half-joking manner)
 
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UTMNC said:
"Competition in the Big 12" I would say they have represented fairly well since 1996, "If" playing in the MNC game is a reliable indicator.
Click to expand...
Which it would be, if it weren't for the fact that Oklahoma undeservedly got there twice, and Nebraska once.

What you're using as evidence has actually screwed up what should have been the national title game more times than it's gotten it right.
 
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UTMNC said:
"Competition in the Big 12" I would say they have represented fairly well since 1996, "If" playing in the MNC game is a reliable indicator.
Click to expand...

That in itself isn't a good indicator of conference strength. FSU used to dominate the ACC and made the title game frequently before the conference got deeper.

But the fact that 3 different teams have made the title game in the last few years makes a stronger statement than just the total number of appearances. But as Dryden pointed out, a couple of those selections were very questionable.
 
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I decided to post the relevant portion anyway:

Conference Championship Results (Final season records in parentheses)<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
1996 <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:State w:st="on">Texas</st1:State> (8-5) defeats <st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State> (11-2) 37 – 27
1997 <st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State></ST1:p (13-0) poleaxes Texas A&M (9-4) 54-15
1998 Texas A&M (11-3) exacts revenge on <st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State> by beating<ST1:p <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Kansas</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p (11-2) 36-33 in 2OT
1999 <st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State> (12 – 1) beats up on a <st1:State w:st="on">Texas</st1:State> (9-5) squad that beat them earlier in the year 22-6
2000 <st1:State w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:State> (13-0) squeaks past <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Kansas</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p 27-24 (11-3)
2001 <st1:State w:st="on">Colorado</st1:State> (10-3) beats <st1:State w:st="on">Texas</st1:State> (11-2) 39 – 37 <st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska </st1:State>goes on to play in BCS championship
2002 <st1:State w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:State> (12-2) beats <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Colorado</st1:State></ST1:p (9-5) 29 – 7
2003 <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Kansas</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType> (11-4) beats “the greatest team of all time” <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:State></ST1:p (12-2) 35 – 7 OU goes on to Title game anyway…. Loses. K State is punished by <ST1:pOhio State.
2004 <st1:State w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:State> (12-1) crushes hapless <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pColorado</ST1:p</st1:State> (8-5) 42 – 3. Gets crushed in Title game to USC.
<O:p</O:p
So, what have we seen here. We see either a bad team beating a “good” one (i.e. <st1:State w:st="on">Texas</st1:State> in 1996) or a “great” team beating the snot out of some sister of the poor (i.e. OU v. <st1:State w:st="on">Colorado</st1:State>, <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pNebraska</st1:State> v. A&M) At least one of the Big XII championship game representatives WILL end up with a minimum of 3 loses. We see that a 5 loss squad was good enough to represent their division, 4 times in 9 years. Ladies and gentlemen, that is just under one half of the games. Toss in the 4 loss squads and we see that 6 of 9 games have involved these types of schools. You know what 4 losses gets you in the Big 10? Diddly, save for the same continual reminder from the media that you always get, “The Big 10 is down this year.”
<O:p</O:p
What else? We see that in 2003 <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pOklahoma </ST1:p</st1:State>made the BCS title game despite no Big XII trophy. We see that in 1999 <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pNebraska</ST1:p</st1:State> failed to even win their division let alone the Big XII and still made the Title game. While it is true that the Big XII has produced 2 national champions since 1996 (Nebby in 1997 and OU in 2001) I will remind you that the Big 10 has done the same (Michigan 1997, Ohio State 2002)… Come to think of it, even the Pac 10 has 2 (both by USC). So, if I understand correctly, we’re continually being convinced by the football talking heads that, the Big XII is just a real tough conference, the Pac 10 is known for no defense, and the Big 10, with the possible exception of <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pMichigan</ST1:p</st1:State>, will be “down” again. Interesting take on reality, boys.
<O:p</O:p
Lets take a closer look at what the Big XII championship game has produced. What did those teams go on to achieve? Because it’s fun, I’ll pay some attention to non-champion 2001 <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pNebraska</ST1:p</st1:State>
<O:p</O:p
1996 <st1:State w:st="on">Texas</st1:State> – Lost <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Penn</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p 38 – 15 in the Fiesta Bowl
1996 <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State> – beat Virginia Tech in Orange Bowl.
Record (1 – 1)
<O:p</O:p
1997 <st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State> – Destroyed <st1:State w:st="on">Tennessee</st1:State> 42 – 17 in <ST1:pOrange</ST1:p Bowl. Won share of National Championship. I will note that their competition, that is
1997 Texas A&M – went on to lose to UCLA in the Cotton Bowl
Record (1-1) Overall (2-2)
<O:p</O:p
1998 <st1:State w:st="on">Texas</st1:State> A&M – as mentioned, blasted by <ST1:p<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Ohio</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p 24-14.
1998 <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Kansas</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType> – Lost to Purdue in <ST1:pAlamo </ST1:pbowl causing me to laugh hysterically for weeks.
Record (0-2) Overall (2-4)
<O:p</O:p
1999 <st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State> – Beats <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Tennessee</st1:State></ST1:p again, this time in Fiesta Bowl
1999 <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Texas</st1:State></ST1:p – Beat to a pulp by OurKansas.. whoops, I mean <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Arkansas</st1:State></ST1:p (8-4) score? 6 – 27.
Record (1-1) Overall (3-5) (uninspiring, aint it?)
<O:p</O:p
2000 <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:State></ST1:p – Beats Free Shoes 13 to 2, wins Championship.
2000 <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Kansas</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType> – Follows Nebraska’s lead and punishes Big XII whipping boy <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Tennessee</st1:State></ST1:p
Record (2-0) HOLY CRAP!!! Overall (5-5)
<O:p</O:p
2001 <st1:State w:st="on">Colorado</st1:State> – Lost to <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Oregon</st1:State></ST1:p by the convincing score of 16-38, after attempting to drum up support for the notion that THEY should be playing in the Rose. (Joking aside, I will always give this team credit for exposing <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pNebraska</ST1:p</st1:State> 62-36. Thank you Buffs).
2001 <st1:State w:st="on">Texas</st1:State> – Squeaks past <st1:State w:st="on">Washington</st1:State> (8-4) in the <ST1:pHoliday</ST1:p bowl. Yeah!
*2001 <st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State> – demolished by <ST1:p<st1:City w:st="on">Miami</st1:City></ST1:p in Rose 37-14. Yes, That’s right the vaunted <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State></ST1:p “black shirts” gave up 99 points in 2 games. The program has not yet recovered. (note: I am including Nebby because they played for all the marbles.)
Record (1-2) Overall (6-7)
<O:p</O:p
2002 <st1:State w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:State> – beat <ST1:p<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Washington</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p in Rose Bowl
2002 <st1:State w:st="on">Colorado</st1:State> – Lost to <st1:State w:st="on">Wisconsin</st1:State> in <ST1:pAlamo</ST1:p Bowl
Record (1-1) Overall (7-8)
<O:p</O:p
2003 <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Oklahoma </st1:State></ST1:p– lost to LSU in Sugar. Game no where near as close as the score
2003 <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Kansas</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType> – Schooled by <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Ohio</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p. Game no where near as close as the score.
Record (0-2) Overall (7-10)
<O:p</O:p
2004 <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:State></ST1:p – Embarrassed by the USC.
2004 <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Colorado</st1:State></ST1:p – Barely beats UTEP (33-28)… Yes, UTEP… in the no gives a squirt of urine bowl.
Record (1-1) Overall (8-11)
<O:p</O:p
Record in BCS championship games – 1-3
<O:p</O:p
Ok, wait, wait, wait. No doubt some people are thinking, “Hey, BKB, that’s 4 BCS Title appearances. That’s nothing to sneeze at.” Yeah, I guess that’s true. But, I am comfortable representing to you that if you give <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Ohio</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType> a typical Big XII schedule, <ST1:p<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Ohio</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p would have 4 rings right now. Hell, even <st1:State w:st="on">Michigan</ST1:p</st1:State> might not choke playing the same scrubs the typical Big XII team schedules.
<O:p</O:p
When we look at a conference, simply giving the overall records of a team is somewhat misleading. That is, you lose games to conference foes, that doesn’t really say much about your conference – in other words, for each game won, there is also a loss – zero sum game. It’s the out of conference stuff that matters. I won’t even get in to the huge number of I-AA opponents that a typical Big XII team plays. Below are each Big XII member’s record against other BCS conferences since the inception of the Big XII
<O:p</O:p
Baylor (Big 12 = 6-66)<O:p</O:p
ACC 1-0
Big East 0-2
Big 10 0-2
Pac 10 1-2
SEC 0-0
Overall 2-6<O:p</O:p
<st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pColorado</ST1:p</st1:State> (Big 12 = 44-31)
ACC 0-1
Big East 1-0
Big 10 0-3
Pac 10 6-6
SEC 0-0
Overall 7-10
<ST1:p<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Iowa</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p (Big 12 = 21-51)
ACC 0-1
Big East 1-0
Big 10 5-5
Pac 10 0-0
SEC 0-1
Overall 6-6
<st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pKansas</ST1:p</st1:State> (Big 12 = 17 –55)<O:p</O:p
ACC 0-1
Big East 0-0
Big 10 0-2
Pac 10 0-1
SEC 0-0
Overall 0-4
<ST1:p<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Kansas</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p (Big 12 = 52-23)<O:p</O:p
ACC 0-0
Big East 2-1
Big 10 1-2
Pac 10 5-5
SEC 1-0
Overall 9-8
<st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pMissouri</ST1:p</st1:State> (Big 12 = 28-44)<O:p</O:p
ACC 1-0
Big East 1-1
Big 10 2-4
Pac 10 0-0
SEC 0-1
Overall 4-6
<st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pNebraska</ST1:p</st1:State> (Big 12 = 54-21)<O:p</O:p
ACC 0-0
Big East 2-1
Big 10 6-1 (Curiously, the combined record of Big 10 teams NU beat = 29-43)
Pac 10 5-2 (Combined Pac10 Opponents record? 31-29)
SEC 2-1
Overall 15-5 (OK, great, You’ve proven Nebby can beat up on the nobodies. Go shuck some corn)
<st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pOklahoma</ST1:p</st1:State> (Big 12 = 52-24)<O:p</O:p
ACC 2-0
Big East 1- 0
Big 10 0-1
Pac 10 3-3
SEC 3-2
Overall 9-6
<ST1:p<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p (Big 12 = 30-42)<O:p</O:p
ACC 0-0
Big East 0-0
Big 10 0-2
Pac 10 1-1
SEC 1-2
Overall 2-5
<st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pTexas</ST1:p</st1:State> (Big 12 = 55-20)
ACC 2-2
Big East 2-0
Big 10 1-1
Pac 10 2-5
SEC 3-2
Overall 10-10
<st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pTexas</ST1:p</st1:State> A&M (Big 12 =42-32)<O:p</O:p
ACC 1-1
Big East 1-3
Big 10 0-2
Pac 10 0-1
SEC 0-2
Overall 2-9
<st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pTexas</ST1:p</st1:State> Tech (Big 12 = 40-32)
ACC 1-2
Big East 0-0
Big 10 0-3
Pac 10 1-1
SEC 2-3
Overall 4-9
<O:p</O:p
All Big XII Schools (Big XII 441-441)<O:p</O:p
ACC 8-8
Big East 11-8
Big 10 15-28 (9-27 if you take away <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pNebraska</ST1:p</st1:State>’s “pity fucks” as outlined above)
Pac 10 24-27 (Axe the Pac 10 also-rans from <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State></ST1:p’s schedule? 19-25)
SEC 12-14
Overall 70 – 85 (taking away <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State></ST1:p’s creampuff shenanigans = 59 – 82)
<O:p</O:p
The Big XII has a winning record against one BCS conference. That conference is the Big East for God’s sake. I don’t want to hear about how great these Big XII teams are, top to bottom. Fact is, they flat out stink. If it were not for <st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State> kicking the living hell out of the likes of 1999 <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pIowa</ST1:p</st1:State> (1 win, 10 losses) the Big XII would be laughed at unmercifully. Can we please stop the madness of allowing the media schmucks to hype up how great the Big XII is? The Big XII is <st1:State w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:State> and, only occasionally, <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pTexas</ST1:p</st1:State>. That’s it. The league is nowhere near competitive. The same 6 teams, OU, <st1:State w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:State>, <st1:City w:st="on">Kansas State</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Texas</st1:State>, Texas A&M and <ST1:p<st1:State w:st="on">Colorado</st1:State></ST1:p are the only teams that EVER make any noise. Ever. <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pNebraska</ST1:p</st1:State> hasn’t been very good of late, so you can pretty well take them off that short list. A&M had a brief run in the late 90’s, and has since been average at best. <ST1:p<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Kansas</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p is.. well.. <ST1:place Kansas State. As soon as Snyder is gone, you can forget all about KSU. Hell, we may not even have to wait that long. <st1:State w:st="on">Colorado </ST1:p</st1:State>is the best in a very BAD division. Spare me.

EDIT: Current thru 2004... Adding the Texas demolition of Colorado further serves my point
 
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EngineerHorn said:
Even though it looks like he'll be found innocent, that doesn't excuse his behavior and tendency to put himself in bad situations. He is practicing with the team, but they're of course voluntary workouts. I'm certain Mack knows this, but I don't see any official way he can prevent RT from practicing.

There's also the matter of RT's academic problems. I haven't heard anything about them recently, so I assume that's still an issue.

I'll be surprised if RT is back on the team in the fall. Not saying it won't happen, but I don't think it's very likely at this point. Maybe someone more in the know can correct me if I"m wrong.
Click to expand...

Mack knows exactly what's happening with R. Taylor right now, and yes there is not much he can do "officially" to stop it,, but the SECOND that opportunity comes, R. Taylor is gone, regaurdless of the outcome of his legal problems, which by the way, will most likely not be solved in time for the season opener, unless the charges are totally dropped.
 
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Not meaning to interject with recruiting thread, but I wonder, should Joeseph Barksdale happen to be in attendence on Sept. 9th, which sidelines, if any, would he be on. Truth be told, if he's not a Longhorn, Id rather see him at tOSU, anywhere but OU, or God forbid aTm.
 
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UTMNC said:
Not meaning to interject with recruiting thread, but I wonder, should Joeseph Barksdale happen to be in attendence on Sept. 9th, which sidelines, if any, would he be on. Truth be told, if he's not a Longhorn, Id rather see him at tOSU, anywhere but OU, or God forbid aTm.
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Maybe he can go to Laura Quinn's tailor and get a half-and-half jersey made up for the game. :wink2:
 
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Texas fans, has your attitude changed towards Ramonce? Before it seemed like many of you guys would miss his plays, but thought he deserved to be off of the team. If he is 'innocent' in this case, doe sthat change things in your opinion? Is he qualified?
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Ramonce has always maintained that it belonged to a friend who was in the car. (There were 3 other people in the car.) While I don't think anything would constitute "innocence" in this case it is possible the charges will be dropped. There is no word on the timing of that event, but you can bet some calls have been made asking the DA to make up their minds in the next month or so.

He is taking courses at another school so his status at UT is irrelevant to his current progress. Word is that if he does pass all his courses this summer he will be academically eligible.

The fact that he was included in the WR preview on the official website is a strong indicator that they are considering re-instating him. There is no way that article would have been approved otherwise. But, if he is allowed back on the team you can bet he will be on a very tight leash.

If he doesn't make it back to UT the following will occur:
1. Jamaal Charles and Selvin Young will get his carries,
2. Aaron Ross and Quan Cosby will get his returns, and
3. Sweed, Pittman, Cosby and Shipley will get his receptions.

While Jamaal and Quan are the only two who are as dangerous as Ramonce the others are pretty good alternatives.

As for Ramonce, it looks like he is facing probation at worse since it was significantly less than 5 pounds and his first offense, so I suspect he would declare for the NFL draft next spring if he isn't at UT.
 
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Bkb,

Please update with 2005 season records. Reading that would be much more enjoyable if you did.:biggrin:

Hell, even <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:State w:st="on">Michigan</ST1:p</st1:State> might not choke playing the same scrubs the typical Big XII team schedules.
Click to expand...

Like Nebraska? Sorry, couldn't resist. Can't argue too much with the rest. The conference has been pretty mediocre. Conference rankings always produce some lively conversations- so I'll throw this one out there: The SEC is completely overrated. Their record vs. BCS conferences the last few years is just as bad if not worse than the OOC record the Big 12 posted (2005 not included of course).
 
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