Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

[inVINCEable]

Pre-UTMNC.
Pre-inVINCEable.
Pre-campies.
Pre-Longhorn fever.

I don't know how I should feel about landing on this list, however I do think that you should do some self-evaluation and perhaps add your name to that list. Your posts and arguments have been just about, if not even more so, as erratic as the users you have already listed (if you can even call all of their statements erratic).

The following are a series of posts that you have made:

You mean the same Jamaal Charles whose ass was stuffed to the tune of 26 yards on 10 carries in The Shoe (with 12 of those yard coming on one carry, meaning he went 9 carries for 14 yards the rest of the night)?

Arguments about Ginn's performance last year were made in the same and exact way as many of the arguments that you have made against Jamaal Charles; for Ginn, the # of catches were listed, yards gained on those catches, and yards/comp. on those catches (you of course, listed the counterparts for a RB).

Let's look at the first quote in a little more in depth. As a side note, I am making an assumption that by "whose ass was stuffed" you essentially mean stopped/shut down/not successful. Surprisingly in response to this post, not many Longhorns mentioned any type of excuses for the performance of Jaamal Charles. For any normal Texas fan, we knew that your defense had in fact "stuffed" Charles (not to mention the rest of the running game). Not many Longhorn stated that the inability of the offensive line (coaching, gameplan, etc.) was the cause. Not one Longhorn mentioned anything about Charles repeatedly tripping over his own offensive linemen as a means to degrade the effort put on by tOSU defense. We all knew that the excellent and stout play on behalf of the greatest set of LBs in college football last year was the reason for him getting "stuffed."

I believe than several folks have pointed out that Ginn didn't have a big game seeing as he was still relatively new at the WR position and also because Holmes was the #1 guy (4 catches for 73 yards and a TD). While Gonzo had only two catches, he made them count for 33 yards. In fact, the lack of involvement by Ginn and Gonzo was much more due to our not throwing the ball much because of alternating the QBs (14-26-0 combined for the two) and spreading the ball to six different receivers, than it was anything else. In fact, aside from Holmes' four catches, the remaining five receivers had two catches each...if that's not spreading the ball around equally I don't know what is.

If you think that Ginn was an "ineffective" receiver last year, just ask Michigan State (57 yd TD catch), Illinois (73 yd TD catch), Michigan (nine catches, including three on the game-winning drive), and Notre Dame (eight catches for 167 yards, including a 56 yd TD catch). The guy had 17 receptions in the two biggest games of the year (aside from the Texas game) for us.

This is the 2nd quote. Here you make the statement that Ginn was not your #1 WR and that he also was new to learning the position of WR. You also bring up the alternating QBs. I agree with most of these statements and they all make sense to me except for a couple. The fact that you bring up Gonzo is most surprising. You state that he "made [his catches] count." Lack of involvement into an offensive gameplan should by all means be attributed to the inexperienced/rusty QBs, poor gameplanning, offensive strategy etc. However, lack of actual production, "making his catches count" so to speak, should be either attributed to the defense or player's inability/lack of experience. In this case, it would appear to be his lack of experience and hence inability as a WR at that point in the year. However, it is astonishing how easily one can degrade the performance of Charles, considering he also was still "learning the position" as a true freshman, in his 2nd collegiate game, and let alone against as formidable an opponent as Ohio State. How can you possibly have no problem whatsoever in saying that Charles was "stuffed", but Ginn was not "shut down"?

Well, let's look at some of the teams against which he gained that yardage:

La-Lafayette (#91 rush defense): 135 yards
Rice (#109 rush defense): 189 yards

He got way over 1/3 of his yards (324 out of 878) against just two teams. He gained only 26 yards on 10 carries against us, 20 yards on seven carries against Oklahoma State, and only 10 yards on five carries against A&M...not overly impressive.

Let's move onto the 3rd quote. Here you degrade Charles for the level of competition that he played against (in La. Lafayette and Rice), yet you cite examples of plays against Michigan St.(#81 pass defense), Illinois (#76 pass defense), Michigan (#42 pass defense, respectable), and Notre Dame (#103 pass defense) as if to somehow validate how effective Ginn truly is as a receiver. How can you possibly "look down" on the yards Charles gained against lower competition, however have no problem with citing the "effectiveness" of Ginn against similiar competition--defensively speaking?

Some of the arguments you make are extremely well presented. They make sense and have clear logic; in these cases, you have a point. However, your arrogance and pure stubborness to simply discard what any other Longhorn may write no matter what it may be backed by is truly disturbing and has lead, as can be seen, to quite a few inconsistencies on your part. What's even more illogical is how you write me off as a "bandwagon fan" simply by my "moniker." I don't think a bandwagon fan would spend near as much time and effort into his posts as I do. Looking back, I think the only true response to the first quote might have actually been this one, not surprisingly, also by you:

That's your problem...you think just because a player wasn't the star for us against you that the player is "ineffective". You know what? I think that Gonzo's two catches for 33 yards is pretty "effective"...it may not be all that "productive", but 16.5 ypc is hardly "ineffective".

I hope you don't take any of this personally Mililani. You committed no crime by putting the four of us on that list, however leaving yourself off is quite the insult to the rest of us--we are missing our Ohio State counterpart.:( I hope you will act quickly to correct this wrong and make it a right.





As a side note, today is the 4th of July. I would like to dedicate this post in appreciation to all the men and women who have/are/will protect us to ensure our basic right to freedom. Happy 4th of July everyone and hope you enjoy the fireworks...

 

[UTMNC]

Based on stats? Seriously, backtrack from this one...your last shred of credibility is at stake here.

Had the kid played offense only, and been used only sparingly on defense, I can assure you his already impressive offensive numbers would have been insane. Kindle very rarely left the field, even on special teams. 10.5 YPC average against the talent he faced,(one of the toughest districts in the DFW area), is UNHEARD of. His performance is backed by every national media publication, so Im sorry, but CREDIBILITY is not an issue with this post.

 

[bukIpower]

The only thing that I can say in the defense of Teddy is that he had 3 balls thrown his way that game. He caught 2 of them for 9 yards, which shows good coverage by the Texas Secondary by the way. I mean if you get Teddy 10 touches like Jamal had (7 more touches than what Teddy had), How many of you Texas fans think he would've only averaged 4.5 yards a touch? Not me, but thats simply because he's far too dangerous and too fast to get bottled up that well. We'll never know exactly how it would've worked out, but there's was only 2 players that could score on any given play last year and it was Reggie Bush/Ted Ginn. Not downgrading the rest of the talent in the NCAA, but there are just not that many people who can rip off 70 yards at any given time like those two could. Reggie was given that opportunity last year more than 20 times game, Ted was given at times a maximum of 10-12 (Michigan/Notre Dame). Some games he'd get the ball somewhere between 5-10 (Texas/Penn state) times and thats far too many touches.

I feel Teddy didn't play as well as he could have, but who's not to say that if you get him a few more touches he doesn't take a simple hitch 75 yards for a score? The matter of the fact is we totally ignored our biggest homerun threat, but he obviously was not our best reciever. Bottom line is the coaches didn't get him in the game. There was no Receptions, Quick pitches, reverses, they didn't even line him up at QB, and they only attempted one screen pass all game (which he dropped the first play of the game). All's I gata say is I would be holding my breath as a texas fan if Ted Ginn had 7 more cracks at getting to that endzone. I believe even the gameday crew after our game on september 10th critized the coaches to find more ways to get Teddy in the game because 2 touches is just unexcusable.

We simply just ran the ball well last year, and if we can do that against a team you won't see Teddy with the ball all that much. We're not a team who will put teams away 63-0 like you guys will by both throwing/running on a poorly defensive football team. Tressel is far too merciful to let that happen, and you'll rarely see him go for the juggular per say ( which I wish he'd do more often). I think Tressel believes there's no need to pass the ball if they can just simply dominate a team on the ground which doesn't set up well for Teddy to dominate every saturday.

 

[jwinslow]

teddy dropped two passes, I believe both were screens, and he did take a reverse for -2 yards (which was harped on earlier in the thread).

 

[bukIpower]

I stand corrected, he had 5 chances.... still far too many. Thanks Jwinslow!

 

[BuckeyeRob]

U

I don't smoke crack, but I have seen him in person over a dozen times the last two years. With these numbers to back this up, you appear rather foolish.

You cant possibly be this stupid can you? In the last 2 seasons of there respective HS careers, Chris Wells had exactly 2 more carries than your boy. The big difference is Wells played on a team that sucked going 5-5 vs your boy on a team that went 11-1.

The fact that NO ONE recruited this kid as a tailback should tell you something. But no..... in your dillusional mind he is better than Wells and Spiller. Tell you what put EITHER of those kids on that Wilson team and your boy aint even sniffing the backfeild, that I can GARUNTEE you!

 

[BuckeyeRob]

I don't know how I should feel about landing on this list, however I do think that you should do some self-evaluation and perhaps add your name to that list. Your posts and arguments have been just about, if not even more so, as erratic as the users you have already listed (if you can even call all of their statements erratic).

The following are a series of posts that you have made:



Arguments about Ginn's performance last year were made in the same and exact way as many of the arguments that you have made against Jamaal Charles; for Ginn, the # of catches were listed, yards gained on those catches, and yards/comp. on those catches (you of course, listed the counterparts for a RB).

Let's look at the first quote in a little more in depth. As a side note, I am making an assumption that by "whose ass was stuffed" you essentially mean stopped/shut down/not successful. Surprisingly in response to this post, not many Longhorns mentioned any type of excuses for the performance of Jaamal Charles. For any normal Texas fan, we knew that your defense had in fact "stuffed" Charles (not to mention the rest of the running game). Not many Longhorn stated that the inability of the offensive line (coaching, gameplan, etc.) was the cause. Not one Longhorn mentioned anything about Charles repeatedly tripping over his own offensive linemen as a means to degrade the effort put on by tOSU defense. We all knew that the excellent and stout play on behalf of the greatest set of LBs in college football last year was the reason for him getting "stuffed."




This is the 2nd quote. Here you make the statement that Ginn was not your #1 WR and that he also was new to learning the position of WR. You also bring up the alternating QBs. I agree with most of these statements and they all make sense to me except for a couple. The fact that you bring up Gonzo is most surprising. You state that he "made [his catches] count." Lack of involvement into an offensive gameplan should by all means be attributed to the inexperienced/rusty QBs, poor gameplanning, offensive strategy etc. However, lack of actual production, "making his catches count" so to speak, should be either attributed to the defense or player's inability/lack of experience. In this case, it would appear to be his lack of experience and hence inability as a WR at that point in the year. However, it is astonishing how easily one can degrade the performance of Charles, considering he also was still "learning the position" as a true freshman, in his 2nd collegiate game, and let alone against as formidable an opponent as Ohio State. How can you possibly have no problem whatsoever in saying that Charles was "stuffed", but Ginn was not "shut down"?



Let's move onto the 3rd quote. Here you degrade Charles for the level of competition that he played against (in La. Lafayette and Rice), yet you cite examples of plays against Michigan St.(#81 pass defense), Illinois (#76 pass defense), Michigan (#42 pass defense, respectable), and Notre Dame (#103 pass defense) as if to somehow validate how effective Ginn truly is as a receiver. How can you possibly "look down" on the yards Charles gained against lower competition, however have no problem with citing the "effectiveness" of Ginn against similiar competition--defensively speaking?

Some of the arguments you make are extremely well presented. They make sense and have clear logic; in these cases, you have a point. However, your arrogance and pure stubborness to simply discard what any other Longhorn may write no matter what it may be backed by is truly disturbing and has lead, as can be seen, to quite a few inconsistencies on your part. What's even more illogical is how you write me off as a "bandwagon fan" simply by my "moniker." I don't think a bandwagon fan would spend near as much time and effort into his posts as I do. Looking back, I think the only true response to the first quote might have actually been this one, not surprisingly, also by you:



I hope you don't take any of this personally Mililani. You committed no crime by putting the four of us on that list, however leaving yourself off is quite the insult to the rest of us--we are missing our Ohio State counterpart.:( I hope you will act quickly to correct this wrong and make it a right.





As a side note, today is the 4th of July. I would like to dedicate this post in appreciation to all the men and women who have/are/will protect us to ensure our basic right to freedom. Happy 4th of July everyone and hope you enjoy the fireworks...

Maybe you are confused as to where you are at? Its not Texasplanet or Longhornplanet.... its BUCKEYEPLANET! I suggest you remember where you are at instead of acting like this is a longhorn site

 

[UTMNC]

The argument from me has never been "What if", it's only been what was. Myself, and everyone else knows the first 3 or 4 passes to Ginn may produce little results, but that 5-6 or 7th may be 60 yrd TD's. Does learning routes take time, yes, especially for a guy who was primarily a CB in H.S. Billy Pittman was more productive as a first year WR beause he did play some in H.S. and he had an established V.Y. as QB, and because he is very talented and was UT's main deep threat. I have already said I expect to see the improvements from the end of last season carry over to 2006. T.Ginn will be better, but I think IMO, with him being the go too guy in 2006, you will see Texas make the right adjustments. His biggest contribution in the 2006 game IMO, will be as KO/P returner.

 

[timBUCK2]

Sweet Jesus. You'd think with all this hate, that this fighting would actually affect the outcome of the game...

I'm pretty disappointed to see all this name calling, black listing and hurling of personal insults. I like to think of BP as my home, and fans from other teams as my guests.

It’d sure be nice to see some hospitality here. Every fan in this forum supports a proud, tradition rich team that has a really good shot at winning.

Everyone just take 5 deep breaths before you respond, and remember when this thread used to be fun.

 

[timBUCK2]

GOTP



Anyone else feel like shooting for a hole in one?

 

[osugrad21]

Had the kid played offense only, and been used only sparingly on defense, I can assure you his already impressive offensive numbers would have been insane. Kindle very rarely left the field, even on special teams. 10.5 YPC average against the talent he faced,(one of the toughest districts in the DFW area), is UNHEARD of. His performance is backed by every national media publication, so Im sorry, but CREDIBILITY is not an issue with this post.

Credibility is certainly an issue anytime you use opinion and claim fact.

His performance is backed by every national media publication,

Provide them please...I want to see where a publication cited his versatile activity as the reason he did not receive the #1 ranking.

 

[inVINCEable]

Provide them please...I want to see where a publication cited his versatile activity as the reason he did not receive the #1 ranking.

The closest thing you'd probably get is comments made by his coach. With that said, there really isn't any type of comparison that can be made between S. Kindle, and C. Wells/S. Johnson as far as RB is concerned outside of maybe there athleticism. I can almost guarantee that Kindle will never be used as a RB in his time at UT.

 

[Dryden]

Maybe you are confused as to where you are at? Its not Texasplanet or Longhornplanet.... its BUCKEYEPLANET! I suggest you remember where you are at instead of acting like this is a longhorn site

No matter what the name of the site is, inVINCEable should be allowed an opportunity to present his argument. Whether you agree with it or not isn't really relevent. I'd like to think that visiting fans, be they Longhorns, Domers, Cowboys, Cougars, or whatever, have every right to be here and talk college football as much as Buckeye fans do.

Have you ever read ESPN's Top-25 Message Board? Hornfans? There's plenty enough hate out there on other sites that we don't need to bring it here. I would never want to see this site devolve into bashing the opponents' fan base just because they sport a different teams' colors. Nor do I want to see any fan of a future opponent be trashed on the basis of something some other troll said.

I think that Mili incorrectly lumped inVINCEable and campies in with the new arrivals. The former were here back in the summer of 2005, and both have presented their arguments without resorting to flaming or trolling. If you don't agree with it ... fine. But don't get defensive about the fact that they support their team with passion.

We all do it at some point or another.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

I think it's hilarious how the tone of this thread has changed. If you go back to the beginning it's mostly reasonable posts and patting eachother on the back. Now we're at eachother's throats!

Who is more likely to rush for 100 yards or more, Antonio Pittman or Jamal Charles?

Or Sergio Kindle?

 

[osugrad21]

The closest thing you'd probably get is comments made by his coach. With that said, there really isn't any type of comparison that can be made between S. Kindle, and C. Wells/S. Johnson as far as RB is concerned outside of maybe there athleticism. I can almost guarantee that Kindle will never be used as a RB in his time at UT.

Agreed and that was the basis of my argument and the source of frustration for many of the guys in this thread.

Texas is a great program...tOSU is a great program. Both schools should be commended for scheduling this series.

However, the recent trend in this thread of degrading the opponent to boost an argument is getting old.

The talent is deep and it is amazing on both squads.