Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

[scarletngrey11]

i expect it to be a great game and i say whoever turns over least will probably win

You would think the team with an experienced quarterback would have the advantage then, wouldnt you?

 

[Saw31]

it sounds like tosu is hanging their hat on the fact our young qbs will make mistakes funny but tosu's plans against us involve HOPE last year it was force vince to throw and hope he cant this year it's HOPE the freshman qb's make alot of mistakes. and i must say if you dont think we get 20 you are arrogant

The young QB's WILL make mistakes, there is no doubt. How costly the mistakes are is the question...

Not sure what writing "hope" over and over has to do with anything. Our gameplan vs. VY last year was perfect. How else would you defend against that offense? We sure as hell couldn't have him running for 60 yard TD's. We had to force the throw, that is Football 101...That loss wasn't because of our defense or our defensive gameplan, it was because our offense couldn't capitalize on the many opportunities it had. I predicted a 21-17 or 24-20 type game last year. How would that make me or anyone else arrogant? I wasn't too far off after all. This year I'm predicting a 27-24 type game but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it were 17-14 or 20-17...There's nothing arrogant there. That's just good football...I would be much more surprised by a 42-35 type game...

All this said, this thread is about this year's game and I'm not sure how the thread has gotten so far off track...

 

[Longhorn fever]

You would think the team with an experienced quarterback would have the advantage then, wouldnt you?

there you go tosu has the "advantage" you happy? remember they had the "advantage" last you with the horseshoe this year your coming to our house. So personally i think advantages are good but they dont determine games. the whole reason we play the games is because whats supposed to happen dosnt always happen.

The young QB's WILL make mistakes, there is no doubt. How costly the mistakes are is the question...

Not sure what writing "hope" over and over has to do with anything. Our gameplan vs. VY last year was perfect. How else would you defend against that offense? We sure as hell couldn't have him running for 60 yard TD's. We had to force the throw, that is Football 101...That loss wasn't because of our defense or our defensive gameplan, it was because our offense couldn't capitalize on the many opportunities it had. I predicted a 21-17 or 24-20 type game last year. How would that make me or anyone else arrogant? I wasn't too far off after all. This year I'm predicting a 27-24 type game but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it were 17-14 or 20-17...There's nothing arrogant there. That's just good football...I would be much more surprised by a 42-35 type game...

All this said, this thread is about this year's game and I'm not sure how the thread has gotten so far off track...

i will be the first to admit that tosu should of won last year i mean yall had like three turnovers on our 43 yardline or better and only came away with field goals. all i am saying is vince proved he could pass in that game. and between you and me i am expecting this to be a 35-21 type game. whoever capitalizes on mistakes better wins.

 

[4Heisman]

So the screens were read well. That's somehow a knock on TG?

The knock would be that he dropped a screen pass(in the backfield)

 

[Steve19]

I see it in a different way. His 4.5 yds/comp. against Texas is directly related to the fact that as soon as he caught it he was immediately tackled (b/c of our stout pass defense). There was no space or time for Ginn to get to his top speed and gain any yards after the catch.

Let me ask you another question. Would you still be making the same argument had Ginn side-stepped a Texas defender and taken it back to house for a 40 yd. TD. Keep the same number of throws and completions to him. Instead, he side-steps Griffin and takes it to the house on one of his completions. In that case, his stats would have been 2 catches, 40-50 yds., 20-25 yds/comp., and 1 TD. Would you still argue that his production was b/c of your "green" QBs not throwing to him enough (keep in mind it would have been the exact same passes)? I know I would say that bad pass defense and poor gameplanning on behalf of the Texas coaches allowed Ginn to have a successful night.

As far as my name, have you ever thought for even a second that maybe there might be someone else in the world whose birth name is actually Vince and might use their actual real name as part of their username for a message board? I can think of a couple people right off the top of my head...Vince Vaughn, Vince Lombardi, Vince Carter, etc. along with Vince Young. Don't be so quick to label me a "bandwagon fan" without actually getting a chance to know me...

Yes. The quarterback situation and offensive strategy was completely in a state of flux until after the Michigan State game. Period.

 

[campies]

Ginn had better stats in those other games because he was against mediocre pass defenses. Now if Ginn had an immediate and significant increase in production against pass defenses that were in the top 20 or so, then you could say that your coaching and defense stepped it up. You really think the #96 pass defense in the country (Iowa) "held" Ginn to just 3 catches for 10 yards a pop? No. We just didn't choose to throw to him much because of the game plan. Same with the Texas game.

Also, since Smith was now firmly entrenched as the starter, the passing game markedly improved as the season progressed. You insist on pointing to an anomaly (OSU rotating two green QBs) rather than the norm.

By the way, if you don't want folks to think you're a bandwagon fan, you could choose a moniker that was a little more original and a little less idolizing than "inVINCEable" (like no one had thought of that one before)...

Ok, so you "gamplan" against the mediocre pass defenses (Iowa) to not emphasize Ginn but he isn't really needed, in the same way as you do against the good defenses (Texas) when he really would be needed? Or is it that he's not needed because the green QBs provide the greater of two evils? Maybe its that he's needed but with the QB its a wash anyway, so they just forfeit any confident offensive strategy with one of their most talented players. Its all a gameplan. Tell me, exactly, when and how the hell do you use Ginn, since apparently he's too good to use against the weaker teams, and not good enough to validate himself against a team with comparable talent that stops him

Re-read your post as if it was someone else's and see if you can detect even one cohesive thought.

 

[Zurp]

and i must say if you dont think we get 20 you are arrogant

I don't think "arrogant" is necessarily the right word. Last year, Texas scored 25 points. The argument could be made that they scored 23, since the final 2 was by the defense. But I say that that still counts. Texas scored 25 WITH their bread-and-butter guy. 6 fewer points, and they wouldn't have scored 20 points (See what a high school degree can do for your math skills?) Do you believe that Vince Young wasn't worth 6 points last year? How many of those 25 points would Texas have scored with a freshman quarterback?

Of course, the flip side of the coin is how many points did Texas NOT score because it was in a loud Ohio Stadium? Those points may come more easily on Texas' home field.

We will never know the answer, but it's fun to ask which was the bigger impact on last year's game: Vince Young or Columbus, Ohio? And which will be the bigger impact on this year's game: Troy Smith or Austin, Texas?

 

[cincibuck]

Just 'cause I'm feeling irritable this morning:

I don't think Texas saw a better defense last year than the OSU game. Certainly not the USC defense.

By the same token I don't think OSU saw a better defense all year either. For a team with that much offensive talent to be given the ball in such good field position so many times and score so few points you either have to come to the conclusion that OSU's offense was not up to the test or that Texas's defense was much better than average, or perhaps a combination of both.

What should concern OSU fans is that Tressel has put some very important games on the early season schedule, Texas being the first in that set, and if last year is an example, he'd best be ready to play at "Michigan" level in September.

Instead of questioning whether Texas's defense saw OSU at its best, I think Buckeye fans should consider why Troy Smith, and thus the offense, wasn't ready.

In the 04 season it took getting killed in Iowa before Tressel would give Smith an honest look. How, after that incredible plastering of Michigan in 04, could Tressel have been convinced to put all his planning back into Zwick's hands? How many snaps did Smith get in practice prior to Texas? Clearly it wasn't enough. And don't hand me the "but Smith took that money," BS. Smith was still the proven quality and Tressel walked away from that fact.

Could it have been that Tressel was more concerned with the Big 10 than the NC? It's a tough choice, especially when you're in a league with at least four other programs capable of beating you consistently. Whatever it was, Texas was ready to play at NC level in September and the Buckeyes were not.

This is not a new phenomenon at OSU. Woody viewed his first two pre-season games as scrimmages for the Big 10 and it cost him a few times when he had high ranked teams get tanked early on. Losses to SMU, North Carolina, Stanford and Penn State (pre Big 10) come to mind.

For whatever reason Tressel must have believed that Zwick was ready to step up and be the QB who could win such games. Our running game and our passing game were not up to the test against Texas and they didn't really come around until the week after Penn State. That may win you a Big 10 title, but it won't work if you are aiming at the NC.

 

[UTMNC]

I don't think "arrogant" is necessarily the right word. Last year, Texas scored 25 points. The argument could be made that they scored 23, since the final 2 was by the defense. But I say that that still counts. Texas scored 25 WITH their bread-and-butter guy. 6 fewer points, and they wouldn't have scored 20 points (See what a high school degree can do for your math skills?) Do you believe that Vince Young wasn't worth 6 points last year? How many of those 25 points would Texas have scored with a freshman quarterback?

Of course, the flip side of the coin is how many points did Texas NOT score because it was in a loud Ohio Stadium? Those points may come more easily on Texas' home field.

We will never know the answer, but it's fun to ask which was the bigger impact on last year's game: Vince Young or Columbus, Ohio? And which will be the bigger impact on this year's game: Troy Smith or Austin, Texas?

IMO, DKR Memorial can't even be mentioned in the same sentence with "The Shoe", that type of reputation is earned over time. This one game will be very loud and "Home Field" may help UT some, but to be honest, the UT fans has proven more than once that the term "Fair Weather" still applies to us. Example: 2005, Our MNC season on Senior Day for goodness sakes, even though the game was a blowout by halftime, a large majority of the stadium started to empty in the third qtr, NO EXCUSE. DKR Memorial is a tough place to win because of talent, but it's damn sure not an intimidating place to play.

 

[Dryden]

Could it have been that Tressel was more concerned with the Big 10 than the NC? It's a tough choice, especially when you're in a league with at least four other programs capable of beating you consistently. Whatever it was, Texas was ready to play at NC level in September and the Buckeyes were not.
...
For whatever reason Tressel must have believed that Zwick was ready to step up and be the QB who could win such games. Our running game and our passing game were not up to the test against Texas and they didn't really come around until the week after Penn State. That may win you a Big 10 title, but it won't work if you are aiming at the NC.

I don't think Tressel's strategy, if what you're stating is/was actually his strategy, is unsound. The loss to Texas in and of itself would not have kept OSU out of the national championship game last season. The loss to Penn State, combined with two other teams going undefeated, kept OSU out of the title game. The bottom line is that no Big-10 team stands much of a shot at getting to the national title game without first winning the conference. What we've seen happen in the past with Oklahoma and Nebraska was an anomoly within the system, which has since been (presumably) corrected.

Secondly, despite needing four or five games to find its offensive rhythm, Ohio State's fortunes for the entire season fell on two plays. Pick any one from the Texas game (missing the tackle on Texas' botched KO return for a safety, Huston's sixth FG, Hamby's TD pass, the sack of Zwick, a pass breakup on VY's last toss) and any one from the PSU game (Smith's INT, Hali's sack/forced fumble). If the ball bounces differently on two plays than its an entirely different season.

Field goals or no, OSU squandered no fewer than six different opportunities to win the game against Texas -- I'm sure Texas fans would make the same argument if the outcome had been different. All credit goes to the Texas staff and players for recovering and making the plays, but to say OSU was not playing at a NC level in September isn't true. These are all plays that the 2002 team would have made. For whatever reason, it just wasn't in the cards.

Tressel put the kids in a position to win each game, and a national championship, which is far more than we ever would have gotten from Cooper. The players didn't come through, I don't think it is entirely on the coaches.

 

[Crashcup]

Bingo Dryden, you said it all and perfectly too.

A bounce here or a bounce there is all the differnce in having a "good" season or having a "great" season.

Bottom line is that Tressell does put his team in a favorable position to win every game. After that it truly is up to the players.

 

[Longhorn fever]

I don't think "arrogant" is necessarily the right word. Last year, Texas scored 25 points. The argument could be made that they scored 23, since the final 2 was by the defense. But I say that that still counts. Texas scored 25 WITH their bread-and-butter guy. 6 fewer points, and they wouldn't have scored 20 points (See what a high school degree can do for your math skills?) Do you believe that Vince Young wasn't worth 6 points last year? How many of those 25 points would Texas have scored with a freshman quarterback?

Of course, the flip side of the coin is how many points did Texas NOT score because it was in a loud Ohio Stadium? Those points may come more easily on Texas' home field.

We will never know the answer, but it's fun to ask which was the bigger impact on last year's game: Vince Young or Columbus, Ohio? And which will be the bigger impact on this year's game: Troy Smith or Austin, Texas?

it would of been 29 if henry melton didnt think he was reggie bush...... come on man he's a db and you weigh 270 run over him for the tv and remember vince played a bad game last year not to mention columbus caused a couple of turnovers it's crazy loud in there

 

[Longhorn fever]

IMO, DKR Memorial can't even be mentioned in the same sentence with "The Shoe", that type of reputation is earned over time. This one game will be very loud and "Home Field" may help UT some, but to be honest, the UT fans has proven more than once that the term "Fair Weather" still applies to us. Example: 2005, Our MNC season on Senior Day for goodness sakes, even though the game was a blowout by halftime, a large majority of the stadium started to empty in the third qtr, NO EXCUSE. DKR Memorial is a tough place to win because of talent, but it's damn sure not an intimidating place to play.

to be perfectly honest when does dkr see a big game anymore? we play ou in dallas and the aggies suck so this will actually be the first time in a while we have acctually had a game to get really jacked up about coming to dkr. I promise you you will see a different dkr at the tosu game this year. and besides better than having to go to the shoe

 

[Zurp]

it would of been 29 if henry melton didnt think he was reggie bush...... come on man he's a db and you weigh 270 run over him for the tv and remember vince played a bad game last year not to mention columbus caused a couple of turnovers it's crazy loud in there

Is this the way I sound when I've been at the bar for 10+ hours?

"It would have been 29 if Melton didn't think he was Reggie Bush." Are you referring to the goal line stand when Texas was trying to put the Bucks away? If so, are you guessing that the extra point would have failed?

And is Henry Melton a defensive back? I don't understand. And I don't weigh 270, and I probably shouldn't try to run over him for a television.

You say that Vince played a bad game that day. Are you saying that because he simply played a bad game, or because Ohio Stadium was "crazy loud," or because Ohio State's defense was that good? (Or maybe all three?)

 

[Crashcup]

If I were a Texas fan I would pray that the QB dosen't come apart like a cheap watch.

Otherwise it's a tossup.