Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

[DaddyBigBucks]

UT has enough talent on offense surrounding either of the QB's, that they will NOT have to have a Vince Young type performance. Last years unsettled early QB situation for tOSU cannot even be compared to the Texas QB this season for the simple fact that the supporting cast of our offense this year is MUCH better than the offense both tOSU QB's had to work with last year(not this year, last year). The only threat posed to the Texas defense was T.Ginn and S. Holmes, and that was proven on the field, NO, A. Pittmans 17 carries for 75 yards was not a threat(last year). If Zwick (or Smith) LAST YEAR, I repeat, LAST YEAR, would have had the talent that Texas has THIS year at OL, RB's, and WR's, tOSU would have won the MNC and with that defense would have been one of the greatest college football teams ever. Trying to argue this fact will fall on deaf ears.

Apparently, with you, practically anything falls on deaf ears.

I did not suggest that Texas offense will be anything less than dynamite. I wouldn't, because I believe that they will be fantastic.

My only point is that the right QB with the right kind of experience often makes more difference than anyone else on the field. In fact, I will go so far as to say that Ohio State, with Troy Smith at the helm, has a better chance of moving the ball against the Texas defense than anyone else on your schedule. The Texas defense will be the best we face all season, but having Troy Smith gives us a chance.

I don't see how that is even controversial, but it probably fell on deaf ears anyway.

 

[Dryden]

But How will we know where to find him?

"HE LEFT US A SIGN"

Hmm ...

 

[campies]

Also encouraging for Buckeye fans who know that experience means more at the QB position than anywhere else on the field.

Individually, yes, but certainly not collectively. Football is a team game, hence collective is more important, all things considered; e.g. a more cohesive and experienced unit is usually more effective with lesser skill players than a raw unit lacking such cohesion, though with several star players. Top to bottom counts, and you certainly have it on offense, however, I believe we have it on defense as well, and experienced, teamwork counts just as much, if not more, on that side of the ball than it does with an experienced, veteran quarterback to run everything through.

I think as much as this game has been compared to last year but with reversed roles this year, something that could be inferred is to assume Texas will be in Ohio State's position last year and Ohio State in Texas'. Beyond just thinking about the inherent advantages or disadvantages each of those roles bring, take it a step further to the exact situations that they were put in last year and apply it to now. If Texas is given 2-3 turnovers will the ball in tOSU territory, are they more or less likely given the defense they will face to punch those drives in for scores or will they have to settle for field goals? On the Ohio State side, given the hositle road environment, and the turnovers given up, is your offense proficient enough to have a VY-like game to win it, and will your young defense step up with their backs against the wall and the game on the line? For as much comparison as we do, this level of specificity is the only logical extreme to investigate, so it might be usual to think about if we think these teams are as evenly matched as they appear to be.

 

[scarletngray]

I agree with DaddyBigBucks on this one. As much as football is a team sport and all factors of the game matters, QB play is what will determine the outcome of this game and my money is on Troy Smith. Too much talent and too much experience in the primary spot gives OSU the edge. It was certainly the difference last year with VY.
:osu:

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Individually, yes, but certainly not collectively. Football is a team game, hence collective is more important, all things considered; e.g. a more cohesive and experienced unit is usually more effective with lesser skill players than a raw unit lacking such cohesion, though with several star players.

I don't care of you have the best OL, the best WRs, and best RBs in the entire country on your offense, if your QB makes inexperienced mistakes and fails to execute the offense, all that talent is for not. The offense goes as the QB goes, plain and simple.

 

[High Lonesome]

I don't care of you have the best OL, the best WRs, and best RBs in the entire country on your offense, if your QB makes inexperienced mistakes and fails to execute the offense, all that talent is for not. The offense goes as the QB goes, plain and simple.

very true, but its not completely unheard of to have a young qb just "drive the bus"

if either of our qb's, Jevan or colt, make too many mistakes it will be a long night for the longhorns and their fans

 

[UTMNC]

tOSU will have too much talent for almost every game they play next year, except Texas. This game hinges on one major factor and that being if the UT QB can manage to play a fairly mistake free game. Our QB DOES NOT have to have a V. Young type of game to beat tOSU. With the talent on our offense we will move the ball, and we will score against your young unproven defense. However, against the Texas defense, which will be far and above anything you will face this year, and playing on the road, IMO, T. Smith will have to have a V. Young type of game. Can he do it, sure, will he be able to do it. MAYBE. If our QB plays just a average game, IMO, UT wins. Can they do it, Sure can, Will they do it?, MAYBE

 

[NFBuck]

tOSU will have too much talent for almost every game they play next year, except Texas. This game hinges on one major factor and that being if the UT QB can manage to play a fairly mistake free game. Our QB DOES NOT have to have a V. Young type of game to beat tOSU. With the talent on our offense we will move the ball, and we will score against your young unproven defense. However, against the Texas defense, which will be far and above anything you will face this year, and playing on the road, IMO, T. Smith will have to have a V. Young type of game. Can he do it, sure, will he be able to do it. MAYBE. If our QB plays just a average game, IMO, UT wins. Can they do it, Sure can, Will they do it?, MAYBE

So the long and short of it is maybe Ohio State will win OR maybe Texas will win. Got it.

 

[xrayrandy]

Xray, we need you to settle this argument. Compile every single track time available for all the top teams in the country, and write an algorithm to give an aggregate team speed rating for each team based on individual speeds and weighting factors corresponding to the relative importance of speed to each position.

It is a very tough thing to do since Texas and some other schools do not publish any times from practice, while other schools do. Becasue of that I use recruiting times from camps or services and track times. I also ignore hearsay, and message board quoted times, relying on those that are published and generally from camps of track meets.

Here is a list of UTs speed players and their times along with links.

Likely sub 4.4
Jamaal Charles RB
10.13 100m NCAA MW Regional 2006 http://www.texassports.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=22&url_article_id=4321&change_well_id=2
6.65 60m NCAA Championships 2006 (prelims) http://www.texassports.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=22&url_article_id=3626&change_well_id=2

Quan Cosby WR
10.46 100m Texas State Championships 2001 http://www.dyestat.com/state/tx/statemeet/index.htm
4.35 40 Texas Camp 2000 http://hornfans.com/recruiting/rpongett/2001/01commits.shtml

Ryan Palmer CB
10.49 100m Region 1-5A meet 2003 http://www.milesplit.com/meet/4342
6.84 60m 2006 Leonard Hilton Memorial http://www.texastrack.com/2006 Track/06i_leonard_hilton_memorial_indoor.htm
4.37 40 Scout (2004) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2004

Tarell Brown CB
4.32 40 Nike Camp http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp 10.5 100m (Hand)
per Scout http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=143&p=8&c=1&nid=221717

Also Ramonce Taylor if he somehow returns

Possibly sub 4.4
Erick Jackson S
4.30 40 Scout (2003) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2003
4.3 40 Emfinger http://maxemfingerrecruiting.scout.com/2/80035.html

Selvin Young RB
4.36 40 Rivals (2002) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
10.6 100m (Hand) Per Hornfans article http://hornfans.com/recruiting/rpongett/2002/02commit.html
4.41 40 Scout (2002) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2002

Vondrell McGee RB
4.3 40 Emfinger http://www.maxemfingerrecruiting.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=409&Itemid=2
4.4 40 Rivals (2006) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
Note also 4.37 40 at Texas Camp 2005

Michael Griffin SS
10.64 100m per Official Texas website http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=15&change_well_id=17&member_id=29
4.38 40 Scout (2003) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2003

Billy Pittman WR
4.38 40 Scout (2003) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2003
10.7 100m H per Fox news article http://www.fox7.com/dynamic/text/prospects/p1040.html
4.4 40 Rivals (2003) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp

Chykie Brown CB
4.39 40 Nike Camp 2006 (A&M)/Scout http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2006
4.4 40 Rivals (2006) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp

Montrae Webber WR
10.67 100m Region 3-2A 2006 http://www.milesplit.com/meet/results/34560
10.49 100m (hand)
per Waco Tribune (original link dead) http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-59832

Likely sub 4.45
Aaron Ross CB
3.75 shuttle Nike Camp 2001 (Texas) http://hornfans.com/recruiting/rpongett/2001/01commits.shtml
4.4 40 Rivals (2002) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp

Brandon Foster CB
4.4 40 Rivals (2003) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
4.4 40 Scout (2003) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2003
Leg of 40.06 4x100Relay (#3 national all time) 2005 State Champioships http://www.uil.utexas.edu/athletics/archives/track_field/02_03/results/5A_boys_results.html
Matthew Melton S
4.41 40 Rivals (2002) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
4.43 40 Scout (2002) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2002
38.19 300HH Tyler Rose Relays 2002 http://www.milesplit.com/meet/results/2804
10.77 100m Link no longer active

Myron Hardy WR
4.42 40 Rivals (2004) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
4.4 40 Rivals (2004) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
George Walker WR
4.42 40 Scout (2004) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2004
Tyrell Gatewood LB
4.40 40 Scout (2003) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2003
Jordan Shipley WR
10.85 100m Texas Relays (2004) http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/army/sports/c-track/auto_pdf/TexasRelays.pdf
4.4 40 Rivals (2004) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
4.4 Scout (2004) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2004

Trevor Gerland P
13.72 110HH Texas State Championships (2005) http://www.texastrack.com/2005 Track/05t_uil_state_championships.htm
4.42 40 Rivals (2005) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
Kenneth Beasley WR
10.55 100m (Hand) Vidor Relays 2006 http://www.insidetexasrunning.com/features/boyshslist2006.html
4.4 40 Rivals (2006) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
Possibly 4.45
Limas Sweed WR
4.43 40 Scout (2003) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2003
James Henry S
4.44 40 Rivals (2006) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
Sherrod Harris QB
4.45 40 Rivals (2006) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
Robert Killebrew LB
4.45 40 Scout (2003) http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&c=8&yr=2003

Chris Brown DE
4.45 40 Rivals (2005) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp

Andrew Kelson LB
4.45 40 Rivals (2004) http://texas.rivals.com/commitlist.asp

Marcus Griffin
Michael's twin likely falls somewhere in these lists.

There is very little track data on Ohio highschool athletes so the OSU list is a little thin, buther it goes.

Likely Sub 4.4
Ted Ginn WR 13.40 110 hh/ 10.5 100 Hand/ 4.4 rivals/ 4.45 scout
Anthony Gonzalez WR 4.37 combine & rivals/ 4.36 scout
Erik Haw RB 4.28 OSU camp/ 4.4 rivals/ 4.30 Scout/ 10.96 100m

Possibly sub 4.4
Antonio Pittman RB 4.45 rivals/4.30 scout
Mike Roberts CB 4.35 rivals

Likely sub 4.45
Jamario O'Neal CB/S 10.69 100mstate/ 4.4 Rivals/ 4.45 scout
Ray Smalls WR 10.55 100m (10.40 Hand)/ 4.45 rivals/ 4.40 scout
Maurice Wells RB 4.44 OSU camp & rivals/ 4.40 scout
Malcolm Jenkins CB 21.90 200m/4.43 camp & rivals/ 4.50 scout
Kurt Coleman CB 4.41 rivals/ 4.40 scout
Brian Underwood CB 4.45 rivals/4.41 scout
Sirjo Welch SS 4.45 rivals/4.40 scout

Possibly 4.45
Devon Lyons WR 4.45 rivals/ 4.45 scout
Andre Amos CB 4.45 rivals 4.60 scout
Brian Hartline WR 14.06 110hh/ 4.59 rivals/ 4.40 scout
Shaun Lane CB 4.45 rivals/4.50 scout
Donald Washington CB 4.5 rivals/4.45 scout

Others considered and rejected form the list
Antoine Smith CB No times
Marcus Freeman LB 4.47 scout
Curt Lukens SS 4.5 rivals/4.47 Scout
Albert Dukes WR 4.58 rivals/ 4.51 scout
Anderson Russell SS 4.59 rivals/4.60 scout
Brian Robiske WR 4.52 rivals/4.50 scout

Based on this published data, it appears that Texas has better team speed at the speed positions. The assumption is that players on both teams will improve or not at a similar rate, which may not be a good assumption.

A similar comparison I did for USC was even more lopsided, but I hoven't looked at other speed schools in depth.

 

[scarletngrey11]

So the long and short of it is maybe Ohio State will win OR maybe Texas will win. Got it.

I dont know about that, but I do know one thing.

Whichever team scores the most points will win.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Based on this published data, it appears that Texas has better team speed at the speed positions.

Malcolm Jenkins' run-down of Billy Pittman from over 5 yards behind, in less than 50 yards, blows holes in that "published data".

 

[jwinslow]

tOSU will have too much talent for almost every game they play next year, except Texas. This game hinges on one major factor and that being if the UT QB can manage to play a fairly mistake free game. Our QB DOES NOT have to have a V. Young type of game to beat tOSU. With the talent on our offense we will move the ball, and we will score against your young unproven defense. However, against the Texas defense, which will be far and above anything you will face this year, and playing on the road, IMO, T. Smith will have to have a V. Young type of game. Can he do it, sure, will he be able to do it. MAYBE. If our QB plays just a average game, IMO, UT wins. Can they do it, Sure can, Will they do it?, MAYBE

half of this post was already posted by you today. Thanks for repeating it tho...

Your 'far and above anything' defense was not in the top-30 of rush defenses, despite playing a pretty weak schedule and having a huge lead early in many games (forcing teams to score quickly... which typically limits a rushing attack).

 

[scarletngrey11]

You honestly think that Texas has anywhere close to 12 players that run sub-4.4's?

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Malcolm Jenkins' run-down of Billy Pittman from over 5 yards behind, in less than 50 yards, blows holes in that "published data".

Mmm-hmmmm.

Track Speed
Football Speed

They ain't the same thing.

The funny thing is, the only way to compare speed is to watch them play each other; but AFTER the game, no one will be talking about team speed.

It's only BEFORE the game that team speed get alot of lip time.

 

[jwinslow]

nice of xray to conveniently leave out that selvin is a step slower than he used to be after his injuries. I guess he was close to being sub 4.3 pre-injury. :orbit: