Game thread: USC 34, Notre Dame 31 (Final)

[sandgk]

I'm not sure Woody Paige and Skip Bayless should be considered authoritative on anything. I'm curious as to what you think instant replay would've resolved in that last drive.

How many seconds should have gone back on the clock

It wouldn't likely change where the ball is placed for that should surely be governed by forward progress up till the point the ball is dislodged - not later (slight) backwards progress of the pigskin after the ball is out of the QB's grasp.

Having my cake and eating it too in this debate -
For those who say the ball is spotted at the point it exits field of play - you cannot see that from the replay angles. No convincing evidence, no way to overturn the ball placement.
For those in agreement with the forward progress argument - its a moot point, as seeing exactly when the ball dislodges is also hard to determine.

And to show complete lack of bias - I was definitely pulling for ND to close the deal and get the upset.

 

[Buckeye1]

Also, just food for thought, how is it that forward progress wasnt being accounted for when it took Lienhart a couple "stop and gos" plus a push by his own man, yet when we clearly sacked/forced fumble against Stanton it was blown dead for forward momentum?


I had the same thought about that ; what is the rule? Seems like a lot of judgement calls by the refs themselves when it comes to forward progress. ND and OSU both got screwed on this one. All Pac-10 refs...are you kidding me? No wonder Petey did not want instant reply...no chance of over turning his crew!!!
:osu:

 

[BuckeyeDave]

Please elaborate on this rule, you didn't explain it at all.


How should a play that wasn't determined until after it was consulted be considered a delay of game? How do you make that call? The coach called it in the heat of the game, this isn't college basketball.......you don't get a "T" for calling a timeout when you have none left in college football.........at least to my knowledge.

It would seem that I was correct. Coach Weis commented in his presser that the TO call should have been a penalty and that this was the only real problem that he had with the officiating.

Weis said if he had any complaint about officiating it was that USC assistant coach Brennan Carroll, Pete Carroll's son, was near the end zone signaling for a timeout and wasn't penalized.

"They are out of the coach's box and they are calling timeouts with no timeouts left," Weis said. "Now that's a penalty and that alone puts them out of touchdown scoring range and to field goal range."

Link

 

[methomps]

It's not a penalty in football to call a timeout when you don't have any left. From the NCAA rulebook (RULE 3-3 Article 1 pg65):

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START-->

Quote:<hr>b. When a team’s timeouts are exhausted and it requests a timeout, the official should not acknowledge the request.<hr>​

<!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

 

[TheDeacon]

It wouldn't likely change where the ball is placed for that should surely be governed by forward progress up till the point the ball is dislodged - not later (slight) backwards progress of the pigskin after the ball is out of the QB's grasp.

Nope.

b. Aball that touches a pylon is out of bounds behind the goal line.
c. If a live ball not in player possession crosses a boundary line and then
is declared out of bounds, it is out of bounds at the crossing point.
RULE 4-2/BALL IN PLAY, FR-76 DEAD BALL, OUT OF BOUNDS

It's not a penalty in football to call a timeout when you don't have any left.

Correct, but a coach (even on a 1.5 NC team) can't leave the team area.

FR-114 RULE 9-2/CONDUCT OF PLAYERS AND OTHERS SUBJECT TO RULES

Unsportsmanlike Acts
ARTICLE 1. There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct or any act that
interferes with orderly game administration on the part of players, substitutes,
coaches, authorized attendants or any other persons subject to the
rules, before the game, during the game or between periods.
[...]
b. Other prohibited acts include:
1. During the game, coaches, substitutes and authorized attendants in
the team area shall not be on the field of play or outside the 25-yard
lines without permission from the referee unless legally entering or
leaving the field (Exceptions: Rules 1-2-4-g and 3-3-8-c(Also, a representative may leave the team area along
the limit line to relay timing information under these conditions.) ).

It's a 15-yarder. I'm not sure that trying to call a TO with none left counts as relaying time information.

 

[sandgk]

Nope.


Correct, but a coach (even on a 1.5 NC team) can't leave the team area.

It's a 15-yarder. I'm not sure that trying to call a TO with none left counts as relaying time information.

But both coaches were on the field of play after the OOB backward fumble.

Would that not amount to off-setting penalties?

 

[TheDeacon]

But both coaches were on the field of play after the OOB backward fumble.

Would that not amount to off-setting penalties?

After (as) time hit (was counting down to) 0:00? I could imagine that most of the conversation between Weis/Carrol the elder and the refs were about the time situation (not a penalty in that case) after the fumble. No guarantees. I'm near certain that an assistant coach inside the 15 yelling and trying to call a TO is not getting information after the clocks were reset.

 

[jwinslow]

was coach weis off of the field when they started the playclock? If not, then the defender who wasn't lined up yet was at a distinct disadvantage due to a bizarre scenario.

 

[daddyphatsacs]

Yes, it is a penalty to get outside the regulated box..........but how often do you see coaches on the field? Hell, if this rule was actually enforced Tressel would be penalized quite often for giving Troy Smith the calls on the field.

Normally there is a "sideline warning" issued before any penalties are issued, and besides......as I said earlier......what ref has the balls to make that call against the opposing coach in that tight of a situation. It's like making a pass interference call on a hail mary at the end of a game, sometimes there is contact, but normally it's a no call.

 

[osugrad21]

Just some food for thought, doesn't look much like the 1/2 yard line from this view (at least the 1.5 yard line IMO). The ref seems focused on the player as well, which would make sense why he didn't know where it went out.

With the ball in his sideline arm and the angle of the tackler, I am not convinced that ball is not already out of bounds. Inconclusive at best.

 

[jwinslow]

what's really bizarre is that both camera angles they had of that play were at 45 degree angles. I guess they didn't have replay, but that's a crappy way to shoot replays just the same.

 

[osugrad21]

what's really bizarre is that both camera angles they had of that play were at 45 degree angles. I guess they didn't have replay, but that's a crappy way to shoot replays just the same.

True. Nice find on the pic BTW.