Four Loko

[jimotis4heisman]

in the last week or so every time ive been to the grocery store/gas station i have looked for the stuff. havent seen it... every man/woman/child has seen/heard the news and apparently are buying this stuff up.

didnt a-b have some bud energy or something a few years ago?

 

[cincibuck]

Ohio bans Everclear so that West Virginia might have a reason to exist.

Jeez, Ord, you make me laugh, but have some mercy.

 

[buxfan4life]

Right, and we don't need more of them.

So, if that's the case, we should ban the sale of 12 packs next. Oh wait, they can buy 2 six packs? Ban the sale of six packs now. Oh wait, they can buy individual cans? Well then, ban beer all together now.

See how that logic train works? That is where we are headed. If you don't think so, then explain to me why we went from a .1 BAL as being intoxicated to a .08 BAL. (it wasn't because of studies, I know that for a fact as I worked for ODOT when the mandate came down from the Feds, it was about money gain for government pure and simple.) The government is slowly erroding our individual right to choose in the name of "keeping people safe from themselves."

We need more EDUCATION on the subject, and less knee jerk reactions such as the banning of this, that, and the other thing. And before you go there, the governement's current scare tactics that they try to pass off as education isn't what I mean. I am talking about teaching young people the actual FACTS of what alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, etc. can do to an individual and explain to them the FACTUAL consequences of consuming said products. All they do now is pump out ZOMG!! IT WILL KILLZ U AND EVERYBODYY!!!!!!! which is a total overexageration.

What I am getting at is that the governement should not be telling people what they can do to their own bodies, but should only educate people on what these things can do IF they choose to participate in said activity.

 

[jlb1705]

We need more EDUCATION on the subject, and less knee jerk reactions such as the banning of this, that, and the other thing. And before you go there, the governement's current scare tactics that they try to pass off as education isn't what I mean. I am talking about teaching young people the actual FACTS of what alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, etc. can do to an individual and explain to them the FACTUAL consequences of consuming said products. All they do now is pump out ZOMG!! IT WILL KILLZ U AND EVERYBODYY!!!!!!! which is a total overexageration.

What I am getting at is that the governement should not be telling people what they can do to their own bodies, but should only educate people on what these things can do IF they choose to participate in said activity.

I agree with this to a certain extent. As a society, we do a horrible job of teaching young people about responsible use of alcohol.

I also agree that the ban is a kneejerk reaction. My position is simply that there's enough evidence so far that it needs to be looked at closely rather than just dismissed out of hand as nonsense or nanny state interference.

I still don't buy the slippery slope argument. Maybe I just have too much faith in our society's collective ability to discern between things that are moderately dangerous and things that are potentially four times as dangerous and govern ourselves accordingly.

 

[buxfan4life]

I agree with this to a certain extent. As a society, we do a horrible job of teaching young people about responsible use of alcohol.

I also agree that the ban is a kneejerk reaction. My position is simply that there's enough evidence so far that it needs to be looked at closely rather than just dismissed out of hand as nonsense or nanny state interference.

I still don't buy the slippery slope argument. Maybe I just have too much faith in our society's collective ability to discern between things that are moderately dangerous and things that are potentially four times as dangerous and govern ourselves accordingly.

OK, I think we mostly agree then.

In regards to the bolded part, I think this is where we differ. This banning of substances is not society's doing, but the government. Government is supposed to represent society, but in cases like this it is only representing a very small fraction of that society. We have some real ignorant people that are going to do some really stupid things, but you should not punish the whole for the idiocy of the very few. I know my example was to the extreme, but this country did at one time ban all alcohol because a very few people got their way through political means which impacted society as a whole, which is what I see happening here.

 

[Saw31]

OK, I think we mostly agree then.

In regards to the bolded part, I think this is where we differ. This banning of substances is not society's doing, but the government. Government is supposed to represent society, but in cases like this it is only representing a very small fraction of that society. We have some real ignorant people that are going to do some really stupid things, but you should not punish the whole for the idiocy of the very few. I know my example was to the extreme, but this country did at one time ban all alcohol because a very few people got their way through political means which impacted society as a whole, which is what I see happening here.

You seem to believe that society as a whole gives a rat's ass what a few college students think they have a right to drink or not to drink. Trust me when I say, a few 4 Loko drinking college students do not represent society, where as college students' parents/grandparents do. And they do not care if some nasty 4 Loko swill is available for purchase by college students. You are fighting a losing battle my friend...

 

[buxfan4life]

You seem to believe that society as a whole gives a rat's ass what a few college students think they have a right to drink or not to drink. Trust me when I say, a few 4 Loko drinking college students do not represent society, where as college students' parents/grandparents do. And they do not care if some nasty 4 Loko swill is available for purchase by college students. You are fighting a losing battle my friend...

Where did I say I was talking about a few boozing college students? Don't put words into my post that were not there.

Tell me, how would you feel if the governement were to start prohibition again, ban all tobacco products, and tell you what you are allowed to eat? I personally would not want to live in a country like that, hence why I live in the USA and not a middle eastern country.

If you think that I am defending the idiocy of a few kids whose parents/grandparents did not properly educate their youngsters on the deadly effects of consuming too much alcohol too fast, then you are reading things into my post. I am defending the right of individuals to make a choice on whether or not to drink this stuff.

I have a son, age 13. Since he was able to understand I have been teaching him the consequences and potential dangers of doing certain things (drinking, smoking, drugs, sex, etc.) I educate my boy so that he will hopefully make good decisions when situations arise where peer pressure is involved. The parents/grandparents that have not done this with their offspring are most likely the ones' you are refferring to that wanted this stuff banned. Why should the rest of society be punished because they failed to educate their offspring?

My whole point here is that our government is overstepping their bounds when they do things like this, and if we sit idley by and let them, the more individual choices they will make for us. I would never drink that stuff in the first place, but just because I wouldn't doesn't mean that someone else who might enjoy it in a proper manner shouldn't either.

 

[Saw31]

Where did I say I was talking about a few boozing college students? Don't put words into my post that were not there.

Tell me, how would you feel if the governement were to start prohibition again, ban all tobacco products, and tell you what you are allowed to eat? I personally would not want to live in a country like that, hence why I live in the USA and not a middle eastern country.

If you think that I am defending the idiocy of a few kids whose parents/grandparents did not properly educate their youngsters on the deadly effects of consuming too much alcohol too fast, then you are reading things into my post. I am defending the right of individuals to make a choice on whether or not to drink this stuff.

I have a son, age 13. Since he was able to understand I have been teaching him the consequences and potential dangers of doing certain things (drinking, smoking, drugs, sex, etc.) I educate my boy so that he will hopefully make good decisions when situations arise where peer pressure is involved. The parents/grandparents that have not done this with their offspring are most likely the ones' you are refferring to that wanted this stuff banned. Why should the rest of society be punished because they failed to educate their offspring?

My whole point here is that our government is overstepping their bounds when they do things like this, and if we sit idley by and let them, the more individual choices they will make for us. I would never drink that stuff in the first place, but just because I wouldn't doesn't mean that someone else who might enjoy it in a proper manner shouldn't either.

I apologize. You are taking a wider view of the situation.

However, my point remains that very few people will give a rat's ass about these actions concerning 4 Loko. If this were an all out ban on alcoholic beverages, then yes. It isn't and it won't become another prohibition movement. NO politician is that stupid and NO politician could possibly gather together enough support for something like that...

 

[BUCKYLE]

You seem to believe that society as a whole gives a rat's ass what a few college students think they have a right to drink or not to drink. Trust me when I say, a few 4 Loko drinking college students do not represent society, where as college students' parents/grandparents do. And they do not care if some nasty 4 Loko swill is available for purchase by college students. You are fighting a losing battle my friend...

I probably wouldn't ever drink the stuff again. That doesn't mean banning it doesn't or shouldn't piss me off. College students have been drinking obscene amounts long before this shit, and will continue to do so. The fucking government overstepping their fuckin' boundaries is the bigger issue here. I could not give two fucks about four loko, but some gay bashing, glory hole participant telling me what I need protected from is ridiculous. If the parents and grandparents that "make up society", as you put it, can't check their retarded offspring, that doesn't mean the government should step in.

 

[Saw31]

I probably wouldn't ever drink the stuff again. That doesn't mean banning it doesn't or shouldn't piss me off. College students have been drinking obscene amounts long before this shit, and will continue to do so. The fucking government overstepping their fuckin' boundaries is the bigger issue here. I could not give two fucks about four loko, but some gay bashing, glory hole participant telling me what I need protected from is ridiculous. If the parents and grandparents that "make up society", as you put it, can't check their retarded offspring, that doesn't mean the government should step in.

Hey, I'm just saying what's going on here. You guys want to take up the 4 Loko fight, feel free. Until the government starts going after quality liquor and beer that the rest of society drinks, you're fighting a losing battle. You just are...

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Are bars not going to be able to sell Jagerbombs soon?

Please let this happens. Nothing good has ever, ever, ever come from a jagerbomb.

 

[3074326]

http://www.futurity.org/health-medicine/caffeine-cocktail-wide-awake-and-drunk/

Glad there's some research, but why ban only Four Loko? Doesn't make sense to me.

(I'd rather there be no ban, but banning one is pointless)

 

[Buckeneye]

You seem to believe that society as a whole gives a rat's ass what a few college students think they have a right to drink or not to drink.

Believe me, its far more then a few college students.



Then, your telling me that the majority of society has the right to take the responsibility I have for my own actions out of my hands and place it in theirs?


Of course you didn't hear about this shit when it was just a few suburbanites and your occasional crack head getting fucked up beyond belief.

Bring a small handful of upper-middle class kids away at school into the equation and now you hear "We have to protect our children!!!"



Fuck. This.

Maybe I just have too much faith in our society's collective ability to discern between things that are moderately dangerous and things that are potentially four times as dangerous and govern ourselves accordingly.

I'd be willing to agree with the bold... nothing else.

"Society" in this case are a few angry adults bitching to media outlets. Spotlight hungry, self-righteous politicians putting pressure on federal agencies.

Essentially a giant special interest group.

 

[fourteenandoh]

I would go so far as to say that if government banning this stuff doesn't bother you, then you aren't paying attention. I say this as a person who has had one can of 4 loko and may or may not ever have another. It's not about the 4 loko, its about the government slowly eroding society's reliance on itself. It is not government's job to tell us we can't eat foie gras (chicago), or have french fries with trans fat (new york), or smoke in a public park (california) etc etc etc. Like it or not, if you want to be a retard, you have the right to be a retard as long as it doesn't infringe on other's right to not be a retard.

 

[MightbeaBuck]

Until the government starts going after quality liquor and beer that the rest of society drinks...

I have a fairly large amount of alcohol in my bar. They can have my booze when they can pry it from my cold dead hands - or just wait until I pass out.