E. Gordon Gee (President West Virginia U.)

[BUCKYLE]

You mean redistribution of state taxes? I don't have a problem with OSU being the flagship university. You can only have one flagship, and it only makes sence that OSU be that flagship. I'd like to see OSU become a bigger better version of Stanford. That being said, OSU isn't entitled to 100% of the state university system budget. As much as you guys like to piss on UC, it's clearly the second largest state university in enrollment, endowment, and research dollars. I don't see what is so outrageous about president Ono lobbying for a bigger role for his university in the state university system.

According to the wikilluminati, tOSU's endowment is 2.366 billion. What is the gathering of the juggalos workin' with?

My baby mamma sold the stroller my daughter had outgrown for $22, making her the second highest wage earner in our household.

 

[IronBuckI]

It seems that we have quite a few new members to BP. Would you mind going over who is who again in the "Fredo" category?

I put together a post about a year ago that used quotes from ORD and AKAK describing who's who in the State of Ohio University system. See the quotes below.

Originally Posted by southcampus
I missed this?

I especially enjoyed when the Fredo vicariously lived through the SEC in order to accuse Ohio State fans of living vicariously.

This isn't aimed at you specifically, but the misuse of the term "Fredo" has been bothering me for quite some time, and I felt that we needed a comprehensive list of the State of Ohio Universities and their Godfather counterparts. So, I searched "Ord_Buckeye" and "Fredo". Waaaay too many results. Then I searched "Ord_Buckeye" and "Sonny" and was able to narrow the list significantly. Here is a list of quotes that properly label many of the Universities in this state.

Originally Posted by ORD_Buckeye
The Godfather: Rutherford B. Hayes
Mama: The Morrill Act
Micheal: The Ohio State University
Fredo: We even gave them a minor nightclub (we started their Ph.D programs for them in the 50's) to run but they still weren't satisfied with their role in the family and had to make a run at the throne
Sonny: OU--also an older brother but one whose stupidity took him out before he could be any real threat to Michael
Connie: Cincy
Luca Brasi: Youngstown State

Hyman Roth: Jim Rhodes
Hyman Roth's weaselly perverted lieutenant who pals around with Fredo: John Millett

Originally Posted by AKAK
I'm pretty sure Toledo is Enzo the baker, just hangs out on the lookout and pretends he has a gun.

Which leaves Kent State as Appolonia, Kent read, Kent Write, Kent say the days of the week in order, Boom.

Originally Posted by ORD_Buckeye
Bowling Green: Joey Fontaine. A minor player. Is nothing without the family, but sometimes needs to be slapped around and told to act like a man.

Originally Posted by ORD_Buckeye
Moe Greene: Akron.

In particular, Akron's loudmouthed, Ohio State baiting president Louis Proenza. You almost have to admire his chutzpah for the public statements he gives about Ohio State, yet for all of Michael's outward patience, you just have to know that a bullet in the eyeball is inevitable.

All of these quotes come from the University of Cincinnati Football thread. If I missed anything, please add them to my list. Thank you.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

You mean redistribution of state taxes? I don't have a problem with OSU being the flagship university. You can only have one flagship, and it only makes sence that OSU be that flagship. I'd like to see OSU become a bigger better version of Stanford. That being said, OSU isn't entitled to 100% of the state university system budget. As much as you guys like to [censored] on UC, it's clearly the second largest state university in enrollment, endowment, and research dollars. I don't see what is so outrageous about president Ono lobbying for a bigger role for his university in the state university system.

To be continued in the morning when I sober up.

 

[CincyInterloper]

According to the wikilluminati, tOSU's endowment is 2.366 billion. What is the gathering of the juggalos workin' with?

My baby mamma sold the stroller my daughter had outgrown for $22, making her the second highest wage earner in our household.

Just over one billion as of 2011.


http://www.uc.edu/about/ucfactsheet.html

 

[Steve19]

Let's stop this Ohio State arrogance and give credit where credit it due. Is it really that hard for you guys to give them credit once in a while?

The University of Cincinnati ranks second on this 2011 list of endowments. Oh, wait. This is a list of the worst managed endowment funds...and they can't spell Cincinnati either

#2 Thomas Croft of The University of Cinicinnati

Thomas Croft is the CIO
University of Cincinnati

2010 endowment: $886,262,000
2009 endowment: $883,700,000
Increase: 0.3%
This data includes withdrawals and payments, as well as investment returns. Data from NACUBO.


The University of Cincinnatti reached the $1 billion target for endowments in February, 2013 (link)

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/worst-performing-endowments-universities-2011-1?op=1#ixzz2VcyaciFb
​

 

[Steve19]

Here's a little legacy to put away for Gordon Gee, from the most recent report of the National Association of College and University Business Officers (link).

Ohio State's endowment fund is ranked #29 in the USA.

For the time period FY2011 to FY 2012, Ohio State performed best of all universities with endowments exceeding $500 million, growing 11.6% to $2.366 billion.

In the same time period, the University of Cincinnati dropped 2.7% to $977 million. The University of Miami (Ohio) dropped 3.9% to $387 million. Ohio University grew 21.7% to $409 million.

Here's the pdf to the full report (http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/res...EndowmentMarketValuesRevisedFebruary42013.pdf)

 

[Muck]

Actually, UCSF as an international research institution would be just behind UCB and UCLA. Not having any undergraduate functions and being largely restricted to a med school and medical related doctoral programs leaves them somewhat in the shadows. Where they are active, however, they are world class.

Other than that, I can't argue with your breakdown.

I tend to demote UCSF specifically because of it's unique nature. It's hard to be a great university when you have no colleges.

FY 2011 R&D expenditures:
UCSD $1.009 Billion
UCSF $995 Million
UCLA $982 Million
Stanford $908 Million
Berkeley $708 Million
UC Davis $708 Million
Cal Tech $378 Million

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

You mean redistribution of state taxes? I don't have a problem with OSU being the flagship university. You can only have one flagship, and it only makes sence that OSU be that flagship. I'd like to see OSU become a bigger better version of Stanford. That being said, OSU isn't entitled to 100% of the state university system budget.

Since when has Ohio State EVER been given 100% of state funding. As much as proponents of The Other State Universities like to whine about Ohio State's unfair funding advantage, that is a complete myth with no basis in fact. In fact, the funding system was put in place in the 1960s specifically by the small schools and over the objections of Ohio State. It funded all schools solely by enrollment at both the graduate and undergraduate levels. In other words, an undergraduate at Ohio State was subsidized by the state at exactly the same dollar amount as one at any other as was a doctoral student, law student or med student. This is an incredibly inefficient system that encourages mediocrity and redundancy throughout the state system. Do you think the per-student state support for Berkeley is the same as for Cal State--Hayward?

Prior to the 1960s, Ohio State was appropriately funded under a separate appropriations bill as the state flagship campus, and Strickland's and Kasich's moves back in that direction are a good thing. Does it make any sense that a doctoral student at the 14th ranked Political Science program in the country is funded in the exact same manner and at the same level as one at the several poly sci departments around the state that can't even crack the top 114? Hell, does it make any sense that the latter departments are even allowed to exist? The academic market for new Ph.Ds in the Humanities and Social Sciences is tough for someone coming out of the University of Chicago. What the fuck does it look like for one coming out of the University of Akron?

As much as you guys like to [censored] on UC, it's clearly the second largest state university in enrollment, endowment, and research dollars. I don't see what is so outrageous about president Ono lobbying for a bigger role for his university in the state university system.

As I've stated earlier in this thread, I don't have a problem with some clearly defined role for UC as a secondary research campus, but anyone who believes that is truly what Ono has in mind or that is the limits of where this would end up if the genie is let back out of the bottle, is deluding themselves. Ono is specifically calling for "multiple flagships" not some Virginia Tech role for itself. Read his article.

And what of the rest of the system. Both Fredos (of Ohio in particular) have much better undergraduate reputations than UC. Do you think Butthead Fredo and Beavis Fredo are going to stand by and let UC grab some co-flagship status? What about the Toledo Blade? Think they (and the NW politicians) won't demand some regional flagship status for UT or BG? Akron and that loudmouthed clown?

Ohio has been down this path before and in a time when higher education dollars were much more plentiful. Guess what? It didn't work. With the flagship literally cut off at the knees by the Governor and Regents Chair and the peanut butter (and doctoral programs) being spread to every corner of the state, what was the result for the citizens and taxpayers of Ohio? A mediocre, redundant, watered down, overly expensive state university system.

Sure, Fredo of Ohio loved it because they got to play for twenty years on an unfair field and were handed the victory which they had failed to achieve in their first 150 years of existence, but what did that result in for the state? A weakened flagship that struggled to compete for quality faculty and research funding, an overgrown prep school masquerading as the state flagship campus (but bringing none of the statewide economic impact that the real thing would have) and a massive outflow of top high school students to universities in other states.

Far from going back to that nightmare, Ohio needs to continue on the Strickland/Kasich path of a coherent, regulated university system where the campuses play their assigned and historic roles rather than compete against one another in some self-destructive (and expensive) game of thrones.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Here's a real indicator of how good Gee was at arguably the most important job that an Ohio State President faces: building a consensus throughout the state, the newspapers, the politicians and the business community to support Ohio State as The State University and recognize its flagship role.

This is the second very pro-Gee article in the aftermath of Catholicgate. This from the newspaper that, in the past, could be found to be utterly reliable in its resentment towards Columbus and Ohio State.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Keith-Burris/2013/06/09/Do-they-learn-from-their-mistakes.html

 

[cincibuck]

Ord, not to defend the mushrooming of certain grad programs, but could the redundancy issue not have something to do with the requirement and financial incentive for teachers, social workers and other state employees to have advanced degrees?

It's tough to earn a Masters or PHD if you work in a rural district and have to go to a main campus. As a result so many diploma mills sprang up in the 70s - and now the on-line degree programs have all but gone viral- and much of that growth has to do with teachers stuck in situations where pay scales and job retention are tied to advanced degrees and continuing ed programs.

That ultimately leads to issues that either can't be resolved by universities, or haven't been addressed by the state governments. For example, in the early sixties OSU research showed that high school civics and history were among the weakest programs in the state - and that the majority of American history and civics teachers were also football and basketball coaches, many of them holding a minor in history and political science. One solution that the school came up with was to eliminate the history and political science minor. Unfortunately that did not change the ed programs on other state campuses, nor did the state step in and rule that Am History and Civics teachers MUST complete a major in their teaching field.

Another example would be the situation that occurred in Cincinnati a few years back. A new superintendent came on board and began filling key administrative slots with PHDs from diploma mills. The school system's rapid decline to the bottom of state and national rankings and the loss of voter support seemed to parallel the hiring of personnel with questionable degrees. It took a failed levy to bring the school board to its sense and fire the super.

Without state or national standards that limit who can issue a degree, with the heated competition for federal and state funds based on student population, with job retention and pay scales dependent upon advanced degrees I would almost prefer to see grad programs in several fields offered at all state colleges rather than turned over to University of Phoenix, Indiana Wesleyan and others of that ilk.

 

[BayBuck]

You mean redistribution of state taxes? I don't have a problem with OSU being the flagship university. You can only have one flagship, and it only makes sence that OSU be that flagship. I'd like to see OSU become a bigger better version of Stanford. That being said, OSU isn't entitled to 100% of the state university system budget. As much as you guys like to [censored] on UC, it's clearly the second largest state university in enrollment, endowment, and research dollars. I don't see what is so outrageous about president Ono lobbying for a bigger role for his university in the state university system.

Kent State was actually the 2nd biggest Ohio university in terms of enrollment across all campuses to start the '12/13 year (42,513 to 41,970).

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Ord, not to defend the mushrooming of certain grad programs, but could the redundancy issue not have something to do with the requirement and financial incentive for teachers, social workers and other state employees to have advanced degrees?

It's tough to earn a Masters or PHD if you work in a rural district and have to go to a main campus. As a result so many diploma mills sprang up in the 70s - and now the on-line degree programs have all but gone viral- and much of that growth has to do with teachers stuck in situations where pay scales and job retention are tied to advanced degrees and continuing ed programs.

That ultimately leads to issues that either can't be resolved by universities, or haven't been addressed by the state governments. For example, in the early sixties OSU research showed that high school civics and history were among the weakest programs in the state - and that the majority of American history and civics teachers were also football and basketball coaches, many of them holding a minor in history and political science. One solution that the school came up with was to eliminate the history and political science minor. Unfortunately that did not change the ed programs on other state campuses, nor did the state step in and rule that Am History and Civics teachers MUST complete a major in their teaching field.

Another example would be the situation that occurred in Cincinnati a few years back. A new superintendent came on board and began filling key administrative slots with PHDs from diploma mills. The school system's rapid decline to the bottom of state and national rankings and the loss of voter support seemed to parallel the hiring of personnel with questionable degrees. It took a failed levy to bring the school board to its sense and fire the super.

Without state or national standards that limit who can issue a degree, with the heated competition for federal and state funds based on student population, with job retention and pay scales dependent upon advanced degrees I would almost prefer to see grad programs in several fields offered at all state colleges rather than turned over to University of Phoenix, Indiana Wesleyan and others of that ilk.

I'm not sure what the role of Ohio's secondary education system played in the multiplicity of doctoral programs that arose in the 60s and 70s. It's an interesting question but one with which I have no frame of reference. My gut is that any sincere use of that need was put to the service in the more cynical lobbying by The Other State Universities to just load up as many doctoral programs as they could.

Again, I would reference the UC--Cal State dichotomy. I believe that Cal State departments are allowed to offer Master's degrees as a means of filling the exact same needs that you mention. I'm also sure that a Masters granting department at a Cal State school is not funded on entirely the same basis as a doctoral granting one at a UC school.

I'm not saying the state should go back to the pre-1960s model of only allowing Ohio State to offer doctoral degrees or conduct basic research. I'm just saying that the system should be managed and regulated with an eye towards rationality, historical missions of the various campuses, cost and affordability. When I read Ono calling for "multiple flagships" the above considerations--particularly given both Ohio's history in this regard and the fractured city-state nature of its politics--I fear are nowhere to be found ion Ono's (and others like him) calculations.

 

[lvbuckeye]

Endowed scholarship money for undergraduate and graduate students, endowed funds to bring in post-docs, endowed professorships and chairs, endowed research funds, library funds, new buildings and so on.

Quality costs money whether you're trying to attract a high school student with a 33 ACT, a pre-eminent historian or a cancer researcher.

https://www.giveto.osu.edu/igive/onlinegiving/

just out of curiousity, what is the the top score now?
when i took it, a score of 33 was not possible.

 

[Mike80]

just out of curiousity, what is the the top score now?
when i took it, a score of 33 was not possible.

The new highest score possible is 36. The change happened in 1989 so I guess it's not that new. either way my 30 still stands

 

[Buckeye Maniac]

The Lessons of the Megalomaniac University President

By Paul Campos

If you want a glimpse into what has gone wrong with higher education in America, look no further than the brilliant career of E. Gordon Gee, who as of July 1 will be the ex-president of Ohio State University (and of Brown and Vanderbilt, as well as the flagship public universities of Colorado and West Virginia).

If he had been born at another time, Gee might have sold patent medicines or swampy real estate or a new political party. Instead, he spent the past three decades selling the ever bigger business of American higher ed.

Gee had a talent for, in the jargon of our business schools, finding ways to monetize synergistic brand relationships in the context of a dynamic marketing environment. Translation: he raised a lot of money, mainly by doing things like jacking up tuition (Ohio residents now pay 150% more in real inflation-adjusted dollars to attend OSU than they did when Gee first became president of the school in 1990), ?privatizing? university parking and getting well-heeled alumni to cough up ever larger sums of cash, in the form of tax-deductible donations.

All this made him, in the eyes of politicians in state houses and on boards of regents, a great success. After all, if higher education is really just another business, then it ought to be evaluated in terms of revenue and earnings, and balance sheets, and profit-and-loss statements. When OSU hired Gee, it was also in full awareness of his propensity to spend lavishly to meet those business goals, as he did when he was a ?star? chancellor at Vanderbilt. (Cont.)

http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/06/viewpoint-gordon-gee-should-have-gone-long-ago/