Duke Blue Devils (that rat faced scumbag)

[Jeffcat]

have you ever watched a boxing match? boxers regularly hit their opponents while not actually looking at their opponents. they're doing this with split-second timing. the human mind and body are certainly able to perform these complex behaviors in short order. i'm sure a high-functioning basketball player moving at great speeds can still make deliberate contact, even while looking away for barely a moment. if athletes couldn't perform these actions in split-second time, professional and high-level amateur sports wouldn't be any different than average joe amateur sports.

i think i just got some insight into your simple, slow world.

is henderson a boxer?........not that i know of. there is a difference as well considering he has managed to pull off the most amazing hit to the face ever by unintentionally hitting him, while looking away, and while both of them are moving. if you think it is so easy grab a friend of yours and try to reenact the whole sequence and id be thrilled to see how you are able to fly in by jumping and make it look like you are going to block the ball in a swiping motion and then have another friend foul the person you are going to "hit" and move his body from the foul just right so your jump beforehand results in a collision with the person you are trying to hit and then while in midair looking away try to strike that person with your forearm in a swiping motion at a high rate of speed. i mean cmon henderson obviously intentionally did all of this so it should be a piece of cake to pull off many other times right?

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

and look how fast everything occurs in realtime speed. you are talking about a second or less to think. you can tell where hendersons focus is....on the ball. his eyes clearly follow the ball and he never leads with his elbow or extends his elbow. he makes a swiping motion and hits hansbrough accidentally with his forearm. in hendersons defense nobody intentionally tries to hit an opposing player in midair with a swiping motion while not looking at what their hitting.

He wasn't watching the ball at all. You still need to accept the fact that people don't go in for blocked shots with their arm at a 90 degree angle. I'm confident enough to say that he never intended on landing his elbow on the exact spot on the UNC kid's face.....but I'm also confident in saying he never intended on coming away from that play without the whistle blowing.

 

[Thump]

Can't believe this thread still has legs. Never expected the amount of disagreement that we're seeing here.

Makes for some good reading though.

 

[zincfinger]

is henderson a boxer?........not that i know of. there is a difference as well considering he has managed to pull off the most amazing hit to the face ever by unintentionally hitting him, while looking away, and while both of them are moving. if you think it is so easy grab a friend of yours and try to reenact the whole sequence and id be thrilled to see how you are able to fly in by jumping and make it look like you are going to block the ball in a swiping motion and then have another friend foul the person you are going to "hit" and move his body from the foul just right so your jump beforehand results in a collision with the person you are trying to hit and then while in midair looking away try to strike that person with your forearm in a swiping motion at a high rate of speed. i mean cmon henderson obviously intentionally did all of this so it should be a piece of cake to pull off many other times right?

Jeff, I think you may be mischaracterizing the opposing argument. Few, if any, are claiming that Henderson intended to hit Hansbrough in the nose, specifically. However, many feel that Henderson intended to hit Hansbrough somewhere, without exact location specification, using his forearm. Hitting someone with your forearm, while looking away at the last second, is really not that difficult to do, even if you're airborne. It was likely an unfortunate coincidence that caused the blow to land right on the nose, but that wouldn't change the fact that Henderson was intentionally delivering a hard foul, and doing so recklessly, such that the possibility for causing injury was relatively high.

Along those lines, it actually would have been better if Henderson had not looked away as he swung his elbow in. If he hadn't instinctively turned his face to protect himself, he perhaps could have managed to land the shot on the arm or the shoulder, as he probably intended.

 

[Golferdow01]

He wasn't watching the ball at all. You still need to accept the fact that people don't go in for blocked shots with their arm at a 90 degree angle. I'm confident enough to say that he never intended on landing his elbow on the exact spot on the UNC kid's face.....but I'm also confident in saying he never intended on coming away from that play without the whistle blowing.

This is exactly what happened. No one goes up for a rebound like that unless they are planning on initiating contact. The fact is that some fouls are intentional, but not intentionally flagerant. This foul was just that, intentional but not intentionally flagerant.

 

[buckeyeboy]

Can't believe this thread still has legs. Never expected the amount of disagreement that we're seeing here.

The only reason this thread still has legs is that Jeffcat won't let it go (all the while, he calls his own observations "valid," which I find amusing). And for what it's worth, I don't agree that there's a great amount of disagreement here--it's mostly everyone on one side and Jeffcat on the other. I'm beginning to wonder if he was watching some other game, and not Sunday's UNC-Duke matchup.

 

[Thump]

The only reason this thread still has legs is that Jeffcat won't let it go (all the while, he calls his own observations "valid," which I find amusing). And for what it's worth, I don't agree that there's a great amount of disagreement here--it's mostly everyone on one side and Jeffcat on the other. I'm beginning to wonder if he was watching some other game, and not Sunday's UNC-Duke matchup.

I personally didn't think it was a cheap shot but that's just my opinion.

I can see both sides of this argument.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

I personally didn't think it was a cheap shot but that's just my opinion.

I can see both sides of this argument.

i agree with this.

he showed up with bad intentions. it wasnt necessarily cheap.

i also find it humrous how most people (not just here but in the media) seemingly have to call them gerald henderson and psycho t...

this is my last post on this issue.

 

[Steve19]

If I understand this discussion, the following points are pretty much agreed:

1) Hansborough's injury did not happen totally as a mistake because
2) Henderson entered the situation intent on sending a message.

Now, whether one agrees or disagrees that Henderson intended to break Hansborough's nose, and let's remember that Hansborough is the kind of guy that delivers his own physical presents to others during a game, there is little doubt that he thought this might be a pretty good time to give Hansborough a whack.

3) This is evident in the fact that he sees that the ball is gone but does not go for it. Rather he brings down his elbow with force, continuing his horizontal movement.

4) He then skulks away looking as guilty as hell when he realizes that his whack has produced a lot more serious consequences than he intended.

5) He admits that it was a "hard foul".

So, if we can agree these things, I don't see the problem with his ejection and penalty of a game.

The rules are simple, you may not come into contact with others with the intention to commit a flagrant foul. He clearly did. Hansborough's behavior, even if he was going to dunk or showboat, or even if he had gotten away with murder during the game, is irrelevant. Henderson needed to refrain from what he did. He didn't and now he must pay.

 

[BB73]

during that sequence there were only two instances which would have lead to a substitution opportunity, but both were contingent on making the second free throw.

Per Rule 3, Section 4, Article 10 of the 2007 NCAA basketball rulebook:

During multiple free-throw personal fouls, a substitute may enter the game only before the final attempt in the sequence unless otherwise authorized by the rules or after the final attempt has been converted.

So when Frasor was shooting with 19 seconds left, and made his first free throw, the sub (if he had checked in) should have been sent in for Hansbrough before the second shot. Hansbrough rebounded the second free throw and was then fouled (not the hard foul by Henderson). The second pair of free throws were shot by Hansbrough himself, so obviously they couldn't take him out then, and the flagrant occurred after he rebounded his own missed free throw.

So it seems that either:

1 - Williams didn't send a sub for Hansbrough over to the scorer's table right away when Frasor was fouled with 19 seconds left, or
2 - the scorer didn't sub for Hansbrough after Frasor made his first free throw, which the rules allow

The disctinction is only relevant due to the verbal positioning of the coaches after the game.

 

[Mike80]

 

[Golferdow01]

Hilarious!!!

 

[ScarletBlood31]

fair enough i just share the opposite views of yours. from what i see from the video i just see a guy flying in midair going for a shot block attempt while his teammate hacks hansbrough and contorts him enough that hendersons shot block attempt on the ball and/or his attempt to quickly bring his arms down to his side at the same time accidentally hits hansbrough in the face causing a frenzy. thats just what i see from the evidence the video gives me as well.

I don't know what video you are watching to not acknowledge that Henderson went in there with the purpose to send a message. I'm not saying he tried to break Hansbrough's nose, but there's no doubt that he went in there to completely hack Hansbrough after being frustrated because of losing badly to his team's biggest rival. He may have not meant for it to play out exactly like it did, but make no mistake about it, he went in there to prove a point.

 

[Sky]

I disagree with that. I think he went in there to block the shot but also meant for it to be an obvious foul. For example, I think he intended it to be a foul like you have on a breakaways when a player gives up a fould to stop an easy basket. I don't think he meant to commit a flagrant foul or pull a Ron Artest.

Still, as noted, when you go in looking for an obvious foul the situation can often go sour. But to call this kid dirty or cheap is a little much for me. I think he was frustrated but he certainly didn't commit some hideous act.

 

[TGfan06]

Here is Greg Doyles "glowing" piece on Coach K. A must read for all non duke fans...

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10042792

I don't know much about the 1992 incident, anyone else remember much about it.