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Do You Believe People are Basically Evil?

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DEBuckeye;1104221; said:
Or modern day American whites constantly apologizing for our ancestors....
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For which horrific deed, the annihilation of nearly every Native American or the Slave trade triangle?

Meh, six one way, half a dozen of the other. Either one, I agree with you.
 
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OCBuckWife;1104352; said:
For which horrific deed, the annihilation of nearly every Native American or the Slave trade triangle?

Meh, six one way, half a dozen of the other. Either one, I agree with you.
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As far as the rest of the world is concerned it would be dropping the bomb in world war 2. I have seen many discussions with people from foreign countries and the end result frequently becomes "yeah, well at least we didn't drop the bomb on Japan"
 
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OCBucksFan;1104358; said:
As far as the rest of the world is concerned it would be dropping the bomb in world war 2. I have seen many discussions with people from foreign countries and the end result frequently becomes "yeah, well at least we didn't drop the bomb on Japan"
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more japanese civilians were killed during the firebombings we conducted than hiroshima and nagasaki combined. ask your friends to read more history.

besides, if the use of a devastating weapon in order to win a war is the chief indicator as to whether or not a nation of people is evil. i guess the only non evil nation on this planet would be the french.
 
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OCBucksFan;1104358; said:
As far as the rest of the world is concerned it would be dropping the bomb in world war 2. I have seen many discussions with people from foreign countries and the end result frequently becomes "yeah, well at least we didn't drop the bomb on Japan"
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The rest of the world shouldn't have started the war and by extension gotten the US involved :biggrin:
 
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No, I do not believe that people are "basically evil".

I do believe that people are quite capable of doing things that I would perceive as being 'evil', but 'evil' (and 'good' for that matter) are completely relative terms. One needs a frame of reference to define such terms - and I don't believe any such frame of reference is absolute. i.e. some would define the abortion of a viable fetus as evil, while others would not.
 
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martinss01;1104051; said:
in the history of mankind there has never been an "evil" person. all people are essentially the same. some are simply less informed, sane, well adjusted, etc.. than others. even hitler honestly thought what he was doing was right. i seriously doubt there was ever a point during anything he did where he thought, "dude, im one evil sob". he didn't gas jews then bust out in a fit of maniacal laughter.

all these nutjobs spout off how they are doing "the lords work" not because it says in the evil guy handbook that you have to. these people honestly and truly believe that what they are doing is right and is the best thing for everyone. noone ever believes "they" are the bad guy.
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Don't take this as a personal comment directed at you, martin, but personally I see this type of thing as the number one problem among humanity. Our society has degraded, generation by generation, almost constantly in recent history...and it seems like now, everybody wants to make an excuse as to why.

If you don't want to call Hitler evil, then I have a problem with that. I don't care who you are, if you attempt genocide, then you are severely evil. Now, the root cause may be insanity, arrogance, or the fact that the poor sap's mother didn't pay enough attention to him as a child...but those are excuses, or even causes, of evil. It doesn't absolve anyone of the fact that they are evil, it just explains why they are evil. I cannot give anyone a pass and say they aren't "evil" because they did what they thought was right. World history is chock full of evil leaders to murdered millions of people, and for a variety of reasons. Religion, land grabs, prejudice, whatever...it is still inherently evil.

The problem I have is that (A) the human public will blindfully follow pretty much anyone like a bunch of sheep (just pay attention this year - it's an election year), and do anything they are told to do (believe it or not, the media can be biased, and does make mistakes), and (B) the trend that has been growing for decades is to make excuses for why someone did something, as opposed to punishing them (in order to teach them not to do it again). Spanking is outlawed in school, and every year there's a new bill attempting to ban it everywhere (even your private home).

Now, I sympathize that little Jonny had a horrible, abusive childhood, but I'm still going to want the asshole to fry if he kills my son. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just sick of seeing kids that have no respect for anyone or anything, and nobody (especially their parents) will do anything about it. My dad beat my ass growing up, and I turned out ok (in my biased opinion, of course :wink2: )...why is it so bad to punish someone for doing something wrong? I know most here will agree with me, and probably think I'm talking about something completely different, but to me, these issues go hand-in-hand. Don't make an excuse. Don't justify this behavior. Instead, go out and do something about it. Now, having said all that, I won't go so far as to say that humanity is evil...but very ignorant, very immoral, and completely unethical (in general).

Somebody take this soapbox away from me.
 
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FCollinsBuckeye;1104506; said:
No, I do not believe that people are "basically evil".

I do believe that people are quite capable of doing things that I would perceive as being 'evil', but 'evil' (and 'good' for that matter) are completely relative terms. One needs a frame of reference to define such terms - and I don't believe any such frame of reference is absolute. i.e. some would define the abortion of a viable fetus as evil, while others would not.
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To add to my diatribe, I agree with this, at least mostly. I think there are certain things which are undeniably evil, no matter how you look at it. Trying to exterminate an entire race of humans, for example, can't really be explained away no matter how you try to spin it.
 
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My point is that can be two or more sides. Granted, it may seem painfully obvious which side is 'in the right', but there remains two or more sides nevertheless. For example the 'extreme jihadists' (al quada, et al) declare that the US, and all of western civ for that matter, are the 'great satan'. We, on the other hand, want to wipe them out because they wish to do us harm - no doubt in our minds that the attacks of 9/11 were evil. So...who is right?

From our perspective (well, mine at least - I don't wish to speak for others here) we are clearly 'in the right'. The 9/11 attacks were evil. Roadside bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan are evil. Executions on the internet are evil. I completely believe this. HOWEVER, I recognize that the people dancing in the streets in the middle east after 9/11 didn't perceive the attacks as 'evil'. Those who choose to 'martyr' themselves for the glory of allah or whatever, don't see their actions as evil.

It's simply a matter of perspective. I just wish we could get along.
 
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FKAGobucks877;1104545; said:
Don't take this as a personal comment directed at you, martin, but personally I see this type of thing as the number one problem among humanity. Our society has degraded, generation by generation, almost constantly in recent history...and it seems like now, everybody wants to make an excuse as to why.

If you don't want to call Hitler evil, then I have a problem with that. I don't care who you are, if you attempt genocide, then you are severely evil. Now, the root cause may be insanity, arrogance, or the fact that the poor sap's mother didn't pay enough attention to him as a child...but those are excuses, or even causes, of evil. It doesn't absolve anyone of the fact that they are evil, it just explains why they are evil. I cannot give anyone a pass and say they aren't "evil" because they did what they thought was right. World history is chock full of evil leaders to murdered millions of people, and for a variety of reasons. Religion, land grabs, prejudice, whatever...it is still inherently evil.

The problem I have is that (A) the human public will blindfully follow pretty much anyone like a bunch of sheep (just pay attention this year - it's an election year), and do anything they are told to do (believe it or not, the media can be biased, and does make mistakes), and (B) the trend that has been growing for decades is to make excuses for why someone did something, as opposed to punishing them (in order to teach them not to do it again). Spanking is outlawed in school, and every year there's a new bill attempting to ban it everywhere (even your private home).

Now, I sympathize that little Jonny had a horrible, abusive childhood, but I'm still going to want the asshole to fry if he kills my son. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just sick of seeing kids that have no respect for anyone or anything, and nobody (especially their parents) will do anything about it. My dad beat my ass growing up, and I turned out ok (in my biased opinion, of course :wink2: )...why is it so bad to punish someone for doing something wrong? I know most here will agree with me, and probably think I'm talking about something completely different, but to me, these issues go hand-in-hand. Don't make an excuse. Don't justify this behavior. Instead, go out and do something about it. Now, having said all that, I won't go so far as to say that humanity is evil...but very ignorant, very immoral, and completely unethical (in general).

Somebody take this soapbox away from me.
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it looks to me like we are having a simple miscommunication. you are looking at this from a legality and accountability perspective. im looking at this purely from a psychological one.

are people evil? no. can people commit evil acts? absolutely. should people who commit evil acts be held responsible for their actions? without question.

however, committing an evil act does not make one evil. hitler didn't have a red tail, horns and a pitch fork. he was a normal man. perhaps a little more disturbed than most. but a man none the less. this isn't meant to excuse his actions in anyway, but rather to serve as warning to the rest of us.
 
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