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DE Vernon Gholston (Official Thread)

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Thump;1650723; said:
You think the Jets haven't played around with Vern at end in some practices?

If he were that great playing end in this scheme, they would move him there.
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So they would change their entire defensive scheme because he's a better fit as a 43 end? Right...

He will sign with a 43 team and have a productive career on the weakside.
 
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ethel merman;1652207; said:
I question the Jets coaching ability and may be part of the problem. Granted, I haven't watched every single game or anything. But look at how much better Farve was on a different team. And it seemed like many of the Jets LBs looked lost in space. Their coaches either can't coach or can't put their players in position to succeed.
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You're questioning the coaching of the team that had one of the best defenses in the NFL. Maybe the best. And they made it to the conference championship with a QB who had a less productive year than Jamarcus Russell did his rookie year.

I don't think coaching is the problem here.
 
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Dang, touchy people on here. I thought that was only at Bucknuts. lol. Oh well. Like I said, I didn't see a lot of their games, so I really don't know. I just noticed in one of the playoff games the LBs getting killed on a TD drive. Yes, I did a lot of research. lol.

The other thing I'm thinking. The OSU coaches seemed to know where to put him to succeed. They either saw that he was an average LB, it was the biggest team need, and/or he was just so much more dominant as a DE. The fact that the Jets thought they knew better where he could play, well...

If the Jets can't change their D, they should let him move on to a better place.

And as far as the Jets almost making it to the Superbowl, they're not even close. Sorry if it's your favorite team. But a 9-7 regular season? 11th rated scoring defense is okay, but not lights out.
 
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ethel merman;1652695; said:
Dang, touchy people on here. I thought that was only at Bucknuts. lol. Oh well. Like I said, I didn't see a lot of their games, so I really don't know. I just noticed in one of the playoff games the LBs getting killed on a TD drive. Yes, I did a lot of research. lol.

The other thing I'm thinking. The OSU coaches seemed to know where to put him to succeed. They either saw that he was an average LB, it was the biggest team need, and/or he was just so much more dominant as a DE. The fact that the Jets thought they knew better where he could play, well...

If the Jets can't change their D, they should let him move on to a better place.

And as far as the Jets almost making it to the Superbowl, they're not even close. Sorry if it's your favorite team. But a 9-7 regular season? 11th rated scoring defense is okay, but not lights out.
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They did almost make it to the Super Bowl, it was actually pretty close.

I'm a 49ers fan.

If you saw them play at the end of the season you'd know how good that defense was.

It would be stupid for the Jets to change their defense for a guy who hasn't shown that he deserves to see the field.

I agree that they should let him go elsewhere.
 
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ethel merman;1652695; said:
And as far as the Jets almost making it to the Superbowl, they're not even close. Sorry if it's your favorite team. But a 9-7 regular season? 11th rated scoring defense is okay, but not lights out.
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Leading at halftime of the AFC championship game isn't close to making it to the Super Bowl?
 
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If Rex Ryan felt that Gholston would have been a force getting to the QB as a 4-3 DE last year, he would have lined him up with his hand down in a position similar to a 4-3 DE on passing downs.

As a matter of fact, he did at several points last year.

Reviewing a Jets Blitz Scheme, Rex Ryan Style - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com

I realize this is a 3-man front, but he has Kris Jenkins (ginormous) in the middle and another 3-4 outside backer (Calvin Pace) on the other side. I don't know a ton about the nuances football strategy, but I would venture a guess that Pace and Gholston were using technique more in line with what is traditionally associated with a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 DE. Pace and Gholston are definitely not 3-4 DEs.

Here's an article about how Rex Ryan shifted to more of a 4-6 than a 3-4 in Baltimore to take advantage of his team's talent:

A blast from the past: remember Chicago's 46 defense? It's back again?this time in Baltimore, where Ray Lewis is trying to make it hum | Football Digest | Find Articles at BNET

I seem to remember Terrell Suggs lining up with his hand on the ground a good bit when Ryan was there.

The bottom line is Rex Ryan is about the best coach a pass rusher like Gholston can hope for. I'm highly skeptical that the Jets are the problem here. That's not to say I'm giving up on Gholston, as he's had two different systems in two different years while trying to get his skills up so he can be an every down player. But even still, he should have been able to put up some decent sack numbers in a system like Ryan's as a pass-rushing specialist.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;1652904; said:
I'd say coming within 30 minutes of game time of winning a conference title game would indeed constitute "close to making it to the Super Bowl".
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I agree. :tongue2:

3074326;1652696; said:
They did almost make it to the Super Bowl, it was actually pretty close.

I'm a 49ers fan.

If you saw them play at the end of the season you'd know how good that defense was.

It would be stupid for the Jets to change their defense for a guy who hasn't shown that he deserves to see the field.

I agree that they should let him go elsewhere.
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ethel merman;1653176; said:
So exactly what position did he put their defensive players that allowed Indy to score 30? Please break it down for me.
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What has any coach done to prevent Indy from scoring at will? If Peyton Manning and the Indy offense is the only example of a defensive failure, you have a pretty damn good defense on your hands.

It's not the Jets coaches who are at fault here. Changing their defense for one player, especially one who isn't at the talent level of Troy Polamalu, etc. would be stupid. Gholston has proven absolutely nothing. Heck, the Panthers aren't going to switch their defense for Julius Peppers (because the idea is ridiculous). What makes you think the Jets would switch for Vern?
 
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ethel merman;1653176; said:
So exactly what position did he put their defensive players that allowed Indy to score 30? Please break it down for me.
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If you want to take 1 game and throw out Rex Ryan as a coach all together, then I'm sorry no one can help you buddy.

But, if you take a look at the entire picture, Rex Ryan had the Jets 1st overall in the league in total defense, 1st overall in passing defense, and 8th overall in rushing defense. Also, 1st overall in opponent points allowed.

Maybe that's not clear enough. Let's add on that he did this all in spite of his offense, not because of it. And still managed to get playoff victories at Cincinnati and at San Diego.

So he fell to the Colts. Yeah, they should fire him for that. Considering that the Colts haven't lost a single game all year in which they played to win. They also sacked Peyton Manning twice, hit him another separate 5 times, and recorded 3 other tackles for loss. So the defensive line wasn't the problem.

You've been saying alot about the deficiencies of the Jets coaching staff, and have been using 1 game as the entire basis for your argument. What would stop me from saying that Bill Belichick should be fired because of the goose egg they put up against Baltimore?

Or that I should take away Ken Wisenhunt as offensive coordinator for the Cardinals because he only managed 14 points against Arizona?

It's because these guys are proven, and for that reason you can't pick out one game and say that they're no good. Wisenhunt is a proven great playcaller, Belichick is a proven great head coach, and in the same vein Rex Ryan is a proven great defensive coordinator. Just look at the Raven defense they past few years before he started coaching the Jets, the proof is in the pudding.

We tend to get touchy when people make ridiculous statements off of unsubstantial facts around here.
 
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Vernon clearly needs a change of scenery, preferably to a 4-3 team who will give him a shot at DE. I hope he gets it and blossoms.
 
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