DE Vernon Gholston (Official Thread)

[ethel merman]

If you want to take 1 game and throw out Rex Ryan as a coach all together, then I'm sorry no one can help you buddy.

But, if you take a look at the entire picture, Rex Ryan had the Jets 1st overall in the league in total defense, 1st overall in passing defense, and 8th overall in rushing defense. Also, 1st overall in opponent points allowed.

Maybe that's not clear enough. Let's add on that he did this all in spite of his offense, not because of it. And still managed to get playoff victories at Cincinnati and at San Diego.

So he fell to the Colts. Yeah, they should fire him for that. Considering that the Colts haven't lost a single game all year in which they played to win. They also sacked Peyton Manning twice, hit him another separate 5 times, and recorded 3 other tackles for loss. So the defensive line wasn't the problem.

You've been saying alot about the deficiencies of the Jets coaching staff, and have been using 1 game as the entire basis for your argument. What would stop me from saying that Bill Belichick should be fired because of the goose egg they put up against Baltimore?

Or that I should take away Ken Wisenhunt as offensive coordinator for the Cardinals because he only managed 14 points against Arizona?

It's because these guys are proven, and for that reason you can't pick out one game and say that they're no good. Wisenhunt is a proven great playcaller, Belichick is a proven great head coach, and in the same vein Rex Ryan is a proven great defensive coordinator. Just look at the Raven defense they past few years before he started coaching the Jets, the proof is in the pudding.

We tend to get touchy when people make ridiculous statements off of unsubstantial facts around here.

Coaches have to show up in the big games, not choke. That was a big game. And the Jets D gave up 4 more points than the Colts season average (26). Not exactly a dominating defense.

Sorry, Raven D is good because of the players. Even they held the Colts to 20 points without your glory boy coaching them.

And "in spite of his offense"? Isn't he coaching the offense (even if indirectly)? So when a unit sucks it's not the coaches, but when it's good it's the coaches? And you're arrogant for this logic? lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol You go girl!

 

[3074326]

Stop trying to blame the coaches for Vern's lack of productivity. It's beyond stupid.

 

[ethel merman]

Stop trying to blame the coaches for Vern's lack of productivity. It's beyond stupid.

Like Cooper against UM and bowls? Let's see, '97 we had David Boston, Joe Germaine, Andy Katzenmoyer, Nai'll Diggs, Ahmahed Plummer and Antoine Winfield.

Yep, that was all on the players. lol.

Let me ask you: when we lost to Purdue, were you one the thousands that whined about getting a new head coach, offensive coordinator and/or QB coach? Or were you proclaiming the coaches were fine and that TP was simply a bust?

 

[xcrunner]

Like Cooper against UM and bowls? Let's see, '97 we had David Boston, Joe Germaine, Andy Katzenmoyer, Nai'll Diggs, Ahmahed Plummer and Antoine Winfield.

Yep, that was all on the players. lol.

Let me ask you: when we lost to Purdue, were you one the thousands that whined about getting a new head coach, offensive coordinator and/or QB coach? Or were you proclaiming the coaches were fine and that TP was simply a bust?

Your post was better before you added the pointless false binary.. But there ya go...

 

[Jake]

Like Cooper against UM and bowls? Let's see, '97 we had David Boston, Joe Germaine, Andy Katzenmoyer, Nai'll Diggs, Ahmahed Plummer and Antoine Winfield.

Yep, that was all on the players. lol.

The players you mentioned were productive most of the time, and Coop's failures in big games spanned over a decade. The one constant was him.

Vernon has played two seasons in NY, under two different coaching staffs. This year's team won 11 games and reached the conference title game. Unfortunately, he has failed to produce at any point, thus far. The one constant has been him.

 

[3074326]

Like Cooper against UM and bowls? Let's see, '97 we had David Boston, Joe Germaine, Andy Katzenmoyer, Nai'll Diggs, Ahmahed Plummer and Antoine Winfield.

Yep, that was all on the players. lol.

Let me ask you: when we lost to Purdue, were you one the thousands that whined about getting a new head coach, offensive coordinator and/or QB coach? Or were you proclaiming the coaches were fine and that TP was simply a bust?

No, that was not me.

Irrelevant, though.

 

[Merih]

Like Cooper against UM and bowls? Let's see, '97 we had David Boston, Joe Germaine, Andy Katzenmoyer, Nai'll Diggs, Ahmahed Plummer and Antoine Winfield.

Yep, that was all on the players. lol.

Let me ask you: when we lost to Purdue, were you one the thousands that whined about getting a new head coach, offensive coordinator and/or QB coach? Or were you proclaiming the coaches were fine and that TP was simply a bust?

You're comparing college, when players are nowhere near their zenith, to the pros. You are putting together string after string of arguments that have little or nothing to do with the topic at hand. And what's worse is that you're doing it so childishly.

And no, Rex Ryan does not coach the offense. He gives full autonomy of the offense to Brian Schottenheimer. Trust me, looking up information before you make claims won't hurt. Ryan coaches the defense, which is why I said what I did. I'm not pulling garbage out of my ass, dressing it up with "lol"'s and lame comments about someones gender, and trying to present it as proof that I'm not an idiot. That's ethel's job.

So; before you go and make another baseless comparison, or say that a guy who ranked #1 team defense sucks as a defensive coach, just save it. Just because you're a buckeye fan, doesn't mean that you can be a buckeye zealot. Vern's failings are his own, and I'm sure if you ask him he would say the same thing.

 

[fanaticbuckeye]

Vernon wore #50 in college and was really good.

 

[ethel merman]

You're comparing college, when players are nowhere near their zenith, to the pros. You are putting together string after string of arguments that have little or nothing to do with the topic at hand. And what's worse is that you're doing it so childishly.

And no, Rex Ryan does not coach the offense. He gives full autonomy of the offense to Brian Schottenheimer. Trust me, looking up information before you make claims won't hurt. Ryan coaches the defense, which is why I said what I did. I'm not pulling garbage out of my ass, dressing it up with "lol"'s and lame comments about someones gender, and trying to present it as proof that I'm not an idiot. That's ethel's job.

So; before you go and make another baseless comparison, or say that a guy who ranked #1 team defense sucks as a defensive coach, just save it. Just because you're a buckeye fan, doesn't mean that you can be a buckeye zealot. Vern's failings are his own, and I'm sure if you ask him he would say the same thing.

lmao. Gosh, would a pro example make you feel better? You are insane with your logic. How about Favre moving on to Minnesota? How about Randy Moss leaving Oakland? Vrabel leaving Pittsburgh? It wasn't the players sucking – it was the coaches. And that's exactly the point. It's a string of arguments that you can't answer (or follow?) intelligently (or even pull out of your ass and dress up with LOLs as you say), so you try to blow them off.

Next. Your #1 ranked defense choked when it mattered. Your weak excuse was Colts score big against everyone. Did you watch the game tonight? 17 points. Ravens held them to 20 and 17 earlier in the season – both without your wonderboy coaching them. Yet, wonderboy gave up 30. Really. Look it up. And my original point was that in that game the LBs looked lost in pass D. Not every play, but enough. And you say, oh, he coached the Ravens D. He had Ray Lewis. If you can't coach him and make him look good, you're a complete moron.

Now, none of us will know for some time what the real reason why Gholston isn't producing. It could be he's in the wrong D. It could be he just takes longer to develop. It could be the coaches can't coach. It could be him. And it could be a little bit of everything. If he moves on and succeeds as a DE in a 4-3, it'll explain a lot. If he moves on and succeeds as a LB, that'll explain a lot. If he moves on and doesn't succeed at either no matter who's coaching him, that'll explain a lot. Until then, this is all a bunch of BS talk. I'm not saying it's the coaches fault. But when you outright dismiss it with all your arrogance, I'm just showing it's a possibility. None of us really know.

And the whole childish crap. I came on here all nice and tried to have an intelligent discussion. And right away all I get is this egomanical I-know-everything-so-shut-up "that's the stupidest..." bla bla bla. So whatever. Go cry somewhere else.

 

[jwinslow]

lmao. Gosh, would a pro example make you feel better? You are insane with your logic.

Boy, I can tell this is going to be another quality argument Maybe you could sneak in a "your brain is so stupid roflcopter" into your next opening.

How about Favre moving on to Minnesota?

Yes, it's the coach's fault that Brett Favre has been a TO machine throughout his career. That's common knowledge, even for those who worship at his feet like Peter King. But once again you feel that two incomparable situations somehow vindicates Vernon's failures.

How about Randy Moss leaving Oakland? Vrabel leaving Pittsburgh? It wasn't the players sucking – it was the coaches.

The quarterbacks and team around Moss stunk, so his production nose-dived after leaving a prolific Minny offense.

The coaches didn't suddenly figure out how to use Randy Moss in New England, they just had an offense - especially a quarterback - capable of getting him the football.

These examples don't work whatsoever, yet you keep going back to the offensive player well. Why is that?

Next. Your #1 ranked defense choked when it mattered. Your weak excuse was Colts score big against everyone. Did you watch the game tonight? 17 points.

How cute, picking out isolated games and acting like they are a useful sample size.

Would you like to discuss the Jets holding New Orleans to 10 offensive pts in week 4? The other 4 came from Sanchez TOs.

Or Houston to 7 in week 1? They wouldn't score less than 3 tds for over two months after that.

See what happens when you use foolishly small sample sizes?

Ravens held them to 20 and 17 earlier in the season – both without your wonderboy coaching them. Yet, wonderboy gave up 30.

The jets were a paltry 22.8 ppg defense before him, and 14.8 with him. Yeah, clearly he stinks.

And you say, oh, he coached the Ravens D. He had Ray Lewis. If you can't coach him and make him look good, you're a complete moron.

Right, because he didn't turn undrafted Bart Scott into a pro bowl selection, or turn 5'8" undrafted Jim Leonard into a valuable defender.

If he moves on and succeeds as a DE in a 4-3, it'll explain a lot. If he moves on and succeeds as a LB, that'll explain a lot.

What, that a different regime drafted the wrong guy? Yeah, that's very embarrassing for Ryan.

None of us really know.

Other than the parts where you cherry pick games to ridicule a highly respected defensive coach and act like those are useful sample sizes. Wait, that quote does apply after all.

And the whole childish crap. I came on here all nice and tried to have an intelligent discussion. And right away all I get is this egomanical I-know-everything-so-shut-up "that's the stupidest..." bla bla bla. So whatever. Go cry somewhere else.

So what, you're trying to throw the biggest temper tantrum because someone else started it?

 

[billmac91]

lmao. Gosh, would a pro example make you feel better? You are insane with your logic. How about Favre moving on to Minnesota? How about Randy Moss leaving Oakland? Vrabel leaving Pittsburgh? It wasn't the players sucking ? it was the coaches. And that's exactly the point. It's a string of arguments that you can't answer (or follow?) intelligently (or even pull out of your ass and dress up with LOLs as you say), so you try to blow them off.

Next. Your #1 ranked defense choked when it mattered. Your weak excuse was Colts score big against everyone. Did you watch the game tonight? 17 points. Ravens held them to 20 and 17 earlier in the season ? both without your wonderboy coaching them. Yet, wonderboy gave up 30. Really. Look it up. And my original point was that in that game the LBs looked lost in pass D. Not every play, but enough. And you say, oh, he coached the Ravens D. He had Ray Lewis. If you can't coach him and make him look good, you're a complete moron.

Now, none of us will know for some time what the real reason why Gholston isn't producing. It could be he's in the wrong D. It could be he just takes longer to develop. It could be the coaches can't coach. It could be him. And it could be a little bit of everything. If he moves on and succeeds as a DE in a 4-3, it'll explain a lot. If he moves on and succeeds as a LB, that'll explain a lot. If he moves on and doesn't succeed at either no matter who's coaching him, that'll explain a lot. Until then, this is all a bunch of BS talk. I'm not saying it's the coaches fault. But when you outright dismiss it with all your arrogance, I'm just showing it's a possibility. None of us really know.

And the whole childish crap. I came on here all nice and tried to have an intelligent discussion. And right away all I get is this egomanical I-know-everything-so-shut-up "that's the stupidest..." bla bla bla. So whatever. Go cry somewhere else.

It's just weird to cliam its possibly coaching when Rex Ryan is known as the best defensive coach in football currently. The 3-4 is not the right fit for Vernon, but to blame that on coaching is absurd. Hopefully Vernon gets cut, and his agent and he nmake a good decesion on his nect destination. It sounds like he'll have another year in the 3-4 which sucks b/c he'll be stuck behind Pace yet again, but hopefully he can find his way to a Tampa 2 team at some point.

 

[jwinslow]

And as far as the Jets almost making it to the Superbowl, they're not even close. Sorry if it's your favorite team. But a 9-7 regular season? 11th rated scoring defense is okay, but not lights out.

I don't see 10 teams lower than 14.8, in fact I don't see any.

2009 NFL Team Total Stats - National Football League - ESPN

 

[Merih]

I don't see 10 teams lower than 14.8, in fact I don't see any.

2009 NFL Team Total Stats - National Football League - ESPN

C'mon Jwins, we're not supposed to hold ethel accountable for facts and information and ish.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Let me ask you: when we lost to Purdue, were you one the thousands that whined about getting a new head coach, offensive coordinator and/or QB coach? Or were you proclaiming the coaches were fine and that TP was simply a bust?

Or maybe one of the many that realized it was just one of those games and that we'd rebound (which we we did in a big way).

 

[Steve19]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s62MrU8mHx4]YouTube - Ethel Merman sings "Everything's Coming Up Roses"[/ame]

Don't worry, guys, Ethel knows that everything is coming up roses!