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- Thread starter Buckskin86
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OregonBuckeye
Semper Fi Buckeyes
Lets pump the breaks. Steve Miller his senior year was a "pleasant surprise". Hubbard is a freakish athlete with 1st round potential who in his first full year at the position, put up 8 tfl, 6.5 sacks, and 1 int. I think you're getting carried away with the hype. Nick will almost assuredly be great but he's a true frosh coming off an ACL. No need to sell other players on the team short just to back him.
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Bill Lucas
Assistant Coach
Bennett was always on the inside. It was clear that Washington had the frame to do the same. No one "kicked" those two anywhere.
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I can't seem to find that comment, but I did find declarations like he'll be 10x better than Simon in their respective sophomore years as well as a lot of best ever DL class (still UF on paper) as well as much worrying about him not coming here (and avoiding his brother's shadow) when there was no doubt he was coming. Some of those statements were a bit extreme
Most of us have been extremely high on his potential (that tends to happen with top-5 talents with incredible lineage). I think it comes down to the way it's worded and whether it's a given that he'll start or be an instant impact player, etc. We seem to be having that debate again with others when in reality most of us are in a similar area with what he'll bring to this school.
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Lewis and Hubbard start.
Holmes comes off the bench.
After that, there is next to nothing.
DE Slade - has played sparingly and not entrenched himself.
DL Thompson - has never been healthy and that might not change.
DL Jones - redshirted and is a DT.
DL Cornell - redshirted and might be a DT.
Incoming:
DL Bosa - ultra talented combo DL that could play the 5 or 3 tech well.
DE Cooper - undersized speed rusher, ultra talented but will need to get bigger and more sound against the run to be a steady player. Probably follows the Jamal Marcus path early on.
It's pretty easy to see why Urban is penciling him in as a contributor. That does not mean he's supplanting the two starters, but that's not a requirement to be a regular force on the DL. If he's close to his hype, he'll be the #4 DL the instant he arrives and make life very uncomfortable for Holmes.
And yes, Bosa could easily be an inside player Mili, and not just as a mismatch like his brother.
Holmes comes off the bench.
After that, there is next to nothing.
DE Slade - has played sparingly and not entrenched himself.
DL Thompson - has never been healthy and that might not change.
DL Jones - redshirted and is a DT.
DL Cornell - redshirted and might be a DT.
Incoming:
DL Bosa - ultra talented combo DL that could play the 5 or 3 tech well.
DE Cooper - undersized speed rusher, ultra talented but will need to get bigger and more sound against the run to be a steady player. Probably follows the Jamal Marcus path early on.
It's pretty easy to see why Urban is penciling him in as a contributor. That does not mean he's supplanting the two starters, but that's not a requirement to be a regular force on the DL. If he's close to his hype, he'll be the #4 DL the instant he arrives and make life very uncomfortable for Holmes.
And yes, Bosa could easily be an inside player Mili, and not just as a mismatch like his brother.
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Solid numbers, but the double-teams went away when he stepped on the field to give Bosa a break. Joey had better stats as a partial starter in his frosh year: 13.5 TFL and 7.5 sacks, and Nick is better. Joey's stats this year almost matched Lewis and Hubbard, despite being double- and triple-teamed nearly every play:
Tyquan Lewis: 8.0 sacks, 14 TFL, 0 INT
Sam Hubbard: 6.5 sacks, 8 TFL, 1 INT
Joey Bosa: 5.0 sacks, 16 TFL, 1 INT
Saying Nick will challenge for a starting spot immediately, and will take over as a starter by season's end is not hyperbole. Saying stuff like "He'll win the Lombardi and Outland Trophies as a true freshman!!" would be hyperbole...
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Yeah, I do. In fact, I just went back and re-read all 17 of my posts in that thread, and in none of them did I even come close to saying he would be the starting QB. I said I'd like to seem him on the field to see what he could do...nothing more. You should remember since you asked me in that thread if I was disappointed he didn't play...nothing about becoming the starter. So, maybe it's you that needs to dial back the rhetoric a hair...
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Nick is better as a HS player. Assuming that means he'll equal/dwarf his brother's freshman production is a pretty gigantic assumption, particularly because Nick will not be playing with Adolphus and Bennett inside.
Now Nick long term, as the DTs mature, Hubbard/Lewis continue to develop, Barrow/Barrett/Cage/etc arrive and others like Cooper develop, along with the maturation of the back 7? That's going to be fun, but this year will have some hiccups.
Now Nick long term, as the DTs mature, Hubbard/Lewis continue to develop, Barrow/Barrett/Cage/etc arrive and others like Cooper develop, along with the maturation of the back 7? That's going to be fun, but this year will have some hiccups.
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This is what you actually said in Gibson's thread
Like Bosa, his potential is scintillating (and obviously Bosa is a far more polished player, so let's not confuse those things). You keep making these statements like they are a slam dunk, like the starter declaration.
So just to clarify, you think Hubbard is being benched in favor of Bosa at some point during the season?
Update: he moved to WR right away
Update: he wasn't close to KJ Hill last fall, who almost burned his redshirt (but didn't). Obviously you included disclaimers about "when he's ready" but he wasn't close last year, despite his immense talent.
Like Bosa, his potential is scintillating (and obviously Bosa is a far more polished player, so let's not confuse those things). You keep making these statements like they are a slam dunk, like the starter declaration.
So just to clarify, you think Hubbard is being benched in favor of Bosa at some point during the season?
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Are you done reading all my responses and thus all the "updates"?
No, I'm not making "slam dunk" declarations. I'm saying I think he's going to be better than Hubbard, and probably Lewis, by the end of the regular season...and I think it's a pretty sure thing.
Yep, I do. Will I be wrong? Quite possibly, but I don't think so.
Let's look at it this way. Even though Lewis and Hubbard had solid years, Joey was clearly head and shoulders above them, and I think most here would agree to that. Opposing DCs didn't game plan for Lewis, and didn't constantly double- and triple-team Hubbard when he came in. Once Joey was ejected from the Fiesta Bowl, Notre Dame completely changed their attack because they didn't have to account for Joey. That's how dominant Joey was.
Now, let's compare junior-year Joey with freshman-year Joey. Obviously he was better as a junior (bigger, stronger, more experienced), but was he that much better? If he was a perfect 100 as a junior, he was probably a good 90 as a frshman. Despite the fact that every single coach involved with Nick says Nick is better than Joey was at this stage, let's put Nick at that same 90 (he's expected to completely recover from the ACL surgery, but since he's missing some training time, I won't rate him higher than freshman-year Joey). So, the thing to look at is whether or not Lewis or Hubbard is that same 90 compared to the perfect 100 of junior-year Joey?
Time will tell whether Bosa ends up starting at DE or not. If he doesn't start a single game at DE this year, feel free to come back and say "Told ya so" (not just you jwins, but anyone disagreeing with me). Because when he does end up starting, I'll be here to remind everyone...
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Yes junior Joey was miles ahead of freshman Joey. Was frosh Joey ultra talented with similar measurables and flashes? Sure. Was he as disciplined? No. The late season 2014 DL was incredibly talented (let alone 2013 with Spence and Marcus). But they freelanced or failed to execute their assignment and got gashed defensively as a result. The exact same guys took the field in the postseason and played several magnitudes better as a unit.
I think freshman Nick will play a ton and flash a lot. I do not think he'll be as disciplined or stout all around as veterans like Lewis and Hubbard. I also think his body type is a little bit different than his brother and could grow into a very disruptive combo deal that can play the 5 or 3 tech with ease. Joey's hands in overall ability was so great that he could play inside but physically he was under size there. It just didn't matter because of his technique, handwork, leverage, quickness and surrounding talent. Nick should have the same versatility but be better built to thrive inside.
Unlike Joey who arrived as a man child and generally stayed around the same physique throughout his time at Ohio State, I think Nick has the potential to look quite a bit different physically as a junior that he does as a freshman. Like Joey, he is a freak for his age but I think he has more room to grow.
Joey also walked into a situation with a terrible defensive line. When Noah and Adolphus arrived on campus they were literally starters or major contributors by default. Joey arrive before either of those two really distinguish themselves as consistent players. The potential was obvious but so was the inconsistency. There is no question that Lewis and Hubbard thrived in the vacuum of attention left behind when teams were forced to commit two or three blockers to stop Joey with mixed results.
Hopefully nick is every bit as good as ranking and manages to be out one or two very good defensive ends in lewis and Hubbard. I just think with a young defense & 2 veteran guys at DE (and there are precious few vets on d) it will be tough to totally outclass them in his first year. Had he arrived last year when Lewis had played some and Hubbard had played none, I think I would have been a different story.
It's not as much we think he won't start as much as we do not believe it's a safe bet.
I think freshman Nick will play a ton and flash a lot. I do not think he'll be as disciplined or stout all around as veterans like Lewis and Hubbard. I also think his body type is a little bit different than his brother and could grow into a very disruptive combo deal that can play the 5 or 3 tech with ease. Joey's hands in overall ability was so great that he could play inside but physically he was under size there. It just didn't matter because of his technique, handwork, leverage, quickness and surrounding talent. Nick should have the same versatility but be better built to thrive inside.
Unlike Joey who arrived as a man child and generally stayed around the same physique throughout his time at Ohio State, I think Nick has the potential to look quite a bit different physically as a junior that he does as a freshman. Like Joey, he is a freak for his age but I think he has more room to grow.
Joey also walked into a situation with a terrible defensive line. When Noah and Adolphus arrived on campus they were literally starters or major contributors by default. Joey arrive before either of those two really distinguish themselves as consistent players. The potential was obvious but so was the inconsistency. There is no question that Lewis and Hubbard thrived in the vacuum of attention left behind when teams were forced to commit two or three blockers to stop Joey with mixed results.
Hopefully nick is every bit as good as ranking and manages to be out one or two very good defensive ends in lewis and Hubbard. I just think with a young defense & 2 veteran guys at DE (and there are precious few vets on d) it will be tough to totally outclass them in his first year. Had he arrived last year when Lewis had played some and Hubbard had played none, I think I would have been a different story.
It's not as much we think he won't start as much as we do not believe it's a safe bet.
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