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- Thread starter MD Buckeye
- Start date
Knowles always gets better the second year so let's see what kind of development happens. If there is none or we regress, then I'll stress
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You're aware that sometimes there are situations that require taking risks, right? Whether or not they work is another matter.
I mean they could sit back in a basic cover-3 or even a cover-4 and satisfy your want for "somebody to cover beyond the sticks" or whatever, but that's both not realistic and usually not a recipe for victory over the course of a full game.
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Ohio State went 12-0 against non-CFP teams last year and nearly beat Georgia in the semifinals. But in its two losses, to Georgia and Michigan, the Buckeyes gave up an incredible eight gains of 45-plus yards – eight!! – and three of 75-plus. Jim Knowles enters his second year as defensive coordinator having already established the sort of risk-reward dynamic he eventually succeeded with at Oklahoma State. While Ohio State allowed 16 points per game against teams outside of the offensive SP+ top 15, its three best opponents averaged 39 per game. And now they have to replace four of last year's top six defensive backs. Question marks remain.
www.elevenwarriors.com
Skull Session: Ohio State Fans Feel Confident in Ryan Day Before 2023, Buckeyes Can Win a Title in Three Simple Steps and Javon Bullard Has “Moved On” From Marvin Harrison Jr. Hit
Ohio State fans are confident in Ryan Day, the Buckeyes can win a title in three simple steps and Javon Bullard has “moved on” from his hit on Marvin Harrison Jr.
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The guy was brought in to be the savior from Day's last bad DC hire. He said himself, many times in early interviews that he knew he didn't have multiple years to build a defense like he did at Oklahoma State. The he understood this was Ohio State and it was win now. Fans ate that shit up. Now here we are a year later and fans have dropped back into the "he's always better the second year" or what ever the hell, narrative.
A DC is responsible for acquiring talent on his side of the ball and the results that talent produces from his, and his staff's, coaching. He finished the last recruiting class with a whimper. It's all a bunch of one off NIL issues we were told. He fell flat on his face on the field against good competition-he doesn't have his guys yet (and one guy fell down once) we are told. Now his next recruiting class is starting to have some non NIL swings and misses to go along with the NIL swings and misses-again he's responsible for a result that seems to be somewhat in doubt.
So struggling to attract talent at the OSU level, struggling on the field and admitting to foundational errors such as using Sawyer for the Jack position (or now we hear-even having a Jack position). That's why I ask, what is it you say you do here?
Other than the "he's good because we want him to be good" wish factor and dominating tomato cans, I don't see much on the positive side of the ledger since he's come here. If that opinion bothers people, it's not my concern.
A DC is responsible for acquiring talent on his side of the ball and the results that talent produces from his, and his staff's, coaching. He finished the last recruiting class with a whimper. It's all a bunch of one off NIL issues we were told. He fell flat on his face on the field against good competition-he doesn't have his guys yet (and one guy fell down once) we are told. Now his next recruiting class is starting to have some non NIL swings and misses to go along with the NIL swings and misses-again he's responsible for a result that seems to be somewhat in doubt.
So struggling to attract talent at the OSU level, struggling on the field and admitting to foundational errors such as using Sawyer for the Jack position (or now we hear-even having a Jack position). That's why I ask, what is it you say you do here?
Other than the "he's good because we want him to be good" wish factor and dominating tomato cans, I don't see much on the positive side of the ledger since he's come here. If that opinion bothers people, it's not my concern.
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Buckeneye
I lead, you follow.
While Chase is one of the very best pass rushers to have played since Myles left A&M, don't sell the rest of the defense short.
You had two 1st round corners, under-appreciated IDL in Hamilton who is carving out a very nice NFL career.
Another NFL IDL in Togiai (tweener at the pro level and my frustrations with him aside)
A LB Duo in Werner and Harrison that have grown into quality NFL starters.
Browning who was looking like the 2nd coming of Von Miller until injury.
And then the most overlooked player in Fuller who has also grown into a pretty good pro.
The defense was balanced front to back with no glaring weakness to consistently exploit along with talent AND experience. Which is what people are forgetting, the 2022 group can't claim that same status.
Answered your own question here. Attempting to indentify, coach and field a 2pt edge that can fill multiple roles isn't easy to do when you come in fresh as a year one DC. Heacock did it with Thad Gipson because he was well versed in his abilities. Same thing with the role that Bobby Carpenter would spot on occasion. Likewise for Gholston, Nathan Williams and..... I think those are the big(ger) names under his tenure here. Oh, can't leave it out Will Smith (RIP) either. Although he didn't 2pt rush and spot drop nearly as much.
So when a coach understands what his design calls for isn't conducive to the players strengths (Sawyer in this case) you either attempt to develop a new player for that role, or you reduce that role to what it will now be, a full time, 3pt weakside edge. Sadly there have been some serious growing pains at times and it sucks Sawyer wasn't able to fill the role to the extent the position entails. So we can keep fitting round pegs to square holes or adapt. It would appear, based on the limited information given, that Knowles has chosen the latter. Which I can appreciate given the stubbornness of a great many coaches throughout the years.
This isn't to absolve Knowles entirely, by no means. Only more to help cultivate an understanding.
I had to put up with ALOT of Browns coverage and outlets claiming they would be a top 10 defense this year. Then you had little ol' me highlighting just how and why that wasn't going to even come close to happening. What fans, including yourself and even myself to an extent, are victim to is the hype. Or more specifically, unjustified hype. Yes, Coach Knowles got a great dose of that before the season and twice more after the week 1 win against NoD when we put the clamps on a fairly pedestrian and under-developed early season offense.
Then as the season dragged on we understood the weaknesses in the secondary. Just like anything, if it's a weakness of personnel and experience in a game that boils down to violent chess, then It's damn near impossible to fix it in the course of half a season.
Were there execution errors by DB's? Yes. They need further experience and development.
Can and should Knowles be held accountable as the DC? Also yes. But this isn't like with Withers in 2013 where the 1st, 2nd and 3rd problems with the defense are the coach himself. At least you see someone who is naturally self-inflective and more than willing to seek the remedy to his own (mis) creations. Because of that, I feel strongly about another season under this current direction.
Where times I've (we as a Buckeye collective) have seen enough by week 7-8 several times in the past.
edit: Forgot to mention - the calls that were mostly the defenses strong suite all season - Cover 1, and certain zero looks, were also the calls that boned them the hardest when the lights were the brightest. So it becomes more of a 'damned if you do' type scenario at that point. Which, again without making excuses, tends to boil down to execution in the moment.
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BUCK3YE5
B.I.A.
We had not one single draftable corner on the field last season and barely any draftable safeties and yet in that game Knowles was calling it like it was 2016 with Lattimore, Conley, Ward and Hooker. THAT is a coaching problem.
I mean, watch the replays of the long TDs. Literally all 11 players are lined up within the down markers on all of them. It was an absurd gameplan.
And I recognize the defense overall was an improvement from the previous couple years. But at the end of the day, in the only two games we needed them, they failed, miserably. I don't really care whether we beat Rutgers by 40 or 50. Just don't completely collapse in the big games?
And for the record, I'm not saying Knowles should have been fired. But his seat should be scorching hot right now. If we get a repeat performance against Michigan and in the postseason, #HeGone
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I wish we still had GPA's, this is one. Extremely well thought out and spot on. The part you mention on Knowles being self-inflective, and also the contrast to Withers, I cannot emphasize enough. Sawyer at Jack instead of a true DE was a disaster, but Knowles at least owns up to that and scrapped it this season instead of being stubborn. Having seen many coaches opt for the stubborn approach (many of which were in Columbus), I can really appreciate Knowles' candor and willingness to adapt.
But to point to the defenses under Withers and Coombs as DC, this defense was a HELL of a lot better. And I think we have the ingredients to make it better this season.
Knowles biggest flaw to me is he gambles too much in situations where he shouldn't. Part of that imo is that fans were complaining about a vanilla defense before him, so he overcompensated. He just needs situational awareness in the big moments and I think we will like the results if he does that.
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Onebuckfan
classof76
Knowles gets another chance..We’ve told Harbaugh is a douche coach and Knowles is a genius. We’ve been told our talent is superior..but the douche keeps winning. I’d rather have a winning douche than a losing genius.
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Buckeye86
I do not choose to discuss it
I think the possibility is quite high that Knowles’ desire to implement the Jack position is being sabotaged by an old curmudgeonly DL coach who hates the idea of taking a DE off the field and refuses to (or at least is really bad at) implement(ing) it.
In this hypothetical scenario, let’s say that this DL coach is extremely established and successful (in addition to being curmudgeonly) and hard to override (or replace) while maintaining some semblance of cohesion amongst the coaches. There’s been rumors of a transition plan for years but there’s obviously something holding that up to the potential detriment of both recruiting and fully implementing what Knowles wants to do defensively.
If we accept these things as true, I think it’s highly likely that Sawyer was a compromise selection (especially after Melton was injured) to keep the DL coach happy by keeping one of his DL on the field, despite it being less than ideal for more than one reason.
Just to take my not-so-subtle digs at LJ Sr to the next level, I also think it is interesting that Day is on record this off season basically criticizing the DL rotation last season and insisting that the best players will be on the field more often this year (meanwhile the LB and DBs need to be rotated more… does anyone think Day’s job is easy?
).Is it any wonder that Day is trying to take a step back from the offensive preparation to take a more active role with the defense?
There’s plenty to criticize, but I am optimistic heading into the season.
I kinda get why back-to-back losses make others not optimistic about anything until that changes, but it is pretty grating to be exposed to constantly.
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OregonBuckeye
Semper Fi Buckeyes
Ironic because LJB has been highly critical of OL and DL recruiting, so it seems you did miss some of his write-ups
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This. And the overall talent disparity in recruiting is absolutely there, we just fucked it two years in a row and didn't prepare properly. It wasn't a talent issue.
But we start a new year, let's get this thread in positivity mode.
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