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DC Jim Knowles (Official Thread)

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I look no further than the game plans against our own offense these past 4-5 years and what I see in CFB overall to know what the modern game of defensive football is and, subsequently, wonder what exactly in the fuck this guy is watching.

You basically can't play man with no safety help between the 20's. The game today, against a good to great offense, is to make them run as many plays as possible to cover in between the 20's and then get super aggressive in the redzone and hope to force a FG or turnover. In between you are just hoping for self inflicted mistakes from the offense which actually happened last night.

He was doing it right, just up to the point he lost his fucking mind and got too aggressive in the final minutes when the clock was our ally and even if you gave up a score, all you had to do was play a lot of zone and make them burn time to do it. You aren't going to shut teams out anymore. You aren't even going to keep a good offense under 30 anymore. It's become like tennis in that you are just trying to hold serve and break serve. Forcing FG's in the redzone is a win. An absolute win. Getting a turnover or missed FG is a bigger win because it's an empty possession for the other offense. He did all of that last night. He was calling a good enough game and the players were doing well enough....right up to the point where he flinched.

It's fucking maddening.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
I look no further than the game plans against our own offense these past 4-5 years and what I see in CFB overall to know what the modern game of defensive football is and, subsequently, wonder what exactly in the fuck this guy is watching.

You basically can't play man with no safety help between the 20's. The game today, against a good to great offense, is to make them run as many plays as possible to cover in between the 20's and then get super aggressive in the redzone and hope to force a FG or turnover. In between you are just hoping for self inflicted mistakes from the offense which actually happened last night.

He was doing it right, just up to the point he lost his fucking mind and got too aggressive in the final minutes when the clock was our ally and even if you gave up a score, all you had to do was play a lot of zone and make them burn time to do it. You aren't going to shut teams out anymore. You aren't even going to keep a good offense under 30 anymore. It's become like tennis in that you are just trying to hold serve and break serve. Forcing FG's in the redzone is a win. An absolute win. Getting a turnover or missed FG is a bigger win because it's an empty possession for the other offense. He did all of that last night. He was calling a good enough game and the players were doing well enough....right up to the point where he flinched.

It's fucking maddening.
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This seems very generous. There was a lot of atrocious tackling and blown coverage as well.
This D needs fundamentals more than scheme at this point. His schemes seem generally right idea... but it doesn't matter if they aren't tackling or covering right.
 
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kujirakira said:
This seems very generous. There was a lot of atrocious tackling and blown coverage as well.
This D needs fundamentals more than scheme at this point. His schemes seem generally right idea... but it doesn't matter if they aren't tackling or covering right.
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Yeah, I was trying to be brief. There is almost nothing about the defense that couldn't stand some improvement but the overall strategy is what I was getting at. Quit playing high risk/man free/whatever nonsense in these critical spots.
 
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RuGettinIt said:
Not in the fire Knowles camp, yet. It wouldn’t be good to walk him after year 1. I just don’t like his scheme to be honest. We’ve seen the risk reward results and it’s not pretty.

I’m also disappointed in what appears to be a lack of player development, especially in the core area of Knowles defense. Was our secondary recruiting really that bad over the last few years? This seems to be a majority of the take on what the problem is. Or, is it as much on the coaches who had a whole off season with them. When I see the constant face guarding and total lack of awareness of the DBs on where the ball is, the lack of tackling skills, and allowing guys who are stopped to still push for 3-4 yards, it really throws up red flags on the coaches.

I just don’t want to see all the coach speak about this guy or that guy looking great in camp and the light bulb going off never to see them play. Or, more than likely, I’m just old and remember when tOSU had real defenses.

I guess here’s to next year and seeing what comes around.
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Knowles’ specialty is LBs, and they improved dramatically this, and I’d say had the biggest improvement as a group on the entire team. The DB situation is interesting, because yes, there were some misses. But OSU has enough talent at CBfor his scheme, as he only needs 2. But the S play is still having problems with execution and that falls on the players not the coaches. For example, the play where McAllister got turned around on a play and caused a first down and didn’t even turn around for the ball. That’s on McAllister, not Knowles or Eliano. The DB play has been up and down,
Knowles...we've got to have the right guys and all of the misses in recruiting are showing themselves. Knowles isn't perfect but he's doing alot of the right things. It wasn't his fault that Hickman slipped and Ransom slipped tonight. Those 2 incidents were worth 14.

The portal needs to be hit for another S with experience, because he has young, talented guys coming in. But we can only expect so much from true frosh to start the season. Speaking of frosh, Styles and Jyaire Brown looked pretty good last night and bodes well for the future.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
I look no further than the game plans against our own offense these past 4-5 years and what I see in CFB overall to know what the modern game of defensive football is and, subsequently, wonder what exactly in the fuck this guy is watching.

You basically can't play man with no safety help between the 20's. The game today, against a good to great offense, is to make them run as many plays as possible to cover in between the 20's and then get super aggressive in the redzone and hope to force a FG or turnover. In between you are just hoping for self inflicted mistakes from the offense which actually happened last night.

He was doing it right, just up to the point he lost his fucking mind and got too aggressive in the final minutes when the clock was our ally and even if you gave up a score, all you had to do was play a lot of zone and make them burn time to do it. You aren't going to shut teams out anymore. You aren't even going to keep a good offense under 30 anymore. It's become like tennis in that you are just trying to hold serve and break serve. Forcing FG's in the redzone is a win. An absolute win. Getting a turnover or missed FG is a bigger win because it's an empty possession for the other offense. He did all of that last night. He was calling a good enough game and the players were doing well enough....right up to the point where he flinched.

It's fucking maddening.
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He got too antsy, and it caused some big plays. Bennett is too experienced to constantly blitz, and the CBs aren’t good enough to stay in man to man. Not many are, tbh. Same thing that bite him against scUM, he gets too aggressive and gets OSU burned when relying on 1 guy to stop massive catch in space. It’s not fair to the CB
 
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pnuts34 said:
Knowles’ specialty is LBs, and they improved dramatically this, and I’d say had the biggest improvement as a group on the entire team. The DB situation is interesting, because yes, there were some misses. But OSU has enough talent at CBfor his scheme, as he only needs 2. But the S play is still having problems with execution and that falls on the players not the coaches. For example, the play where McAllister got turned around on a play and caused a first down and didn’t even turn around for the ball. That’s on McAllister, not Knowles or Eliano. The DB play has been up and down,
Knowles...we've got to have the right guys and all of the misses in recruiting are showing themselves. Knowles isn't perfect but he's doing alot of the right things. It wasn't his fault that Hickman slipped and Ransom slipped tonight. Those 2 incidents were worth 14.

The portal needs to be hit for another S with experience, because he has young, talented guys coming in. But we can only expect so much from true frosh to start the season. Speaking of frosh, Styles and Jyaire Brown looked pretty good last night and bodes well for the future.
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What are your thoughts about his system needing time to absorb? Specifically, when I see a guy with Styles talent not see the field much as a frosh I wonder if other big time S prospects are going to want any part of that?
 
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Jaxbuck said:
What are your thoughts about his system needing time to absorb? Specifically, when I see a guy with Styles talent not see the field much as a frosh I wonder if other big time S prospects are going to want any part of that?
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Time will tell. But I’m sure the starting S next year will be: Ransom(if he returns), Styles, Stokes. I know I said above that you can’t rely on a true frosh, but the suspected other 2 returning S would Kourt Williams(can’t stay healthy, and captain or not, your best ability is availability) and Cam Martinez(I feel like we saw the back of jersey getting burned on a constant when he was in games). Martinez is probably better out of the 2, and has a better chance to play but he’s going to need to have the off season of his life. You could see 1 frosh start next year, depending on Ransom’s decision. But tbh, I’d be fine if all the draft eligible DBs left and see what OSU with the younger players. In the 2 biggest games of the year, Ransom was embarrassed (he had good plays last night, but be honest, what’s the play everyone remembers from him:roll1:). If OSU went into 2023 with: Styles, Stokes, Hawkins/Hartford/Bonsu would anyone be mad? I’d prefer to get an experienced S in the portal, tbh to go with Styles and Stokes

I do think you need to let him have his players in his system longer than a year, because the seniors on the team, Knowles was their 4th DC. How can you expect to be set up for success with 3 different schemes in your 4yr career?
 
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Jaxbuck said:
Yeah, I was trying to be brief. There is almost nothing about the defense that couldn't stand some improvement but the overall strategy is what I was getting at. Quit playing high risk/man free/whatever nonsense in these critical spots.
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Have no choice but to agree here.

Most of the time I can talk myself into excusing the "bad calls" by the staff.

For Knowles, big plays early against TTUN? The offense wasn't quite clicking enough to pull away. Combine that with some PTSD from '21. Had to be aggressive to show that we won't be run on. JJ couldn't pass anyway.

Big plays late against TTUN? You know, we were down late in 4th. It was "gash or get gashed" time. It was unfortunate that we landed on the wrong side of the gashing, but at least we went out swinging. Sure would not have been better if we sit back and let them milk the clock like Juice did in '07.

But that bust against Georgia, like what @Jaxbuck said, we were up double digits midway through the 4Q of a shootout in the CFP, oh man. I'm not a fan of the term "Big 12 coach" used in derogatory fashion (me think they play excellent tactical football in the Big 12 to make up for talent deficiency) ... but you are literally from the Big 12, Jim. This is the type of modern era "Big 12 game" we pay you 2 mil to win.

I get all the talk to be aggressive leading up to the game, but the D had done just enough up to that point. CJ was cooking, and has neutralized their run game for you, which was their biggest advantage over us offensively. The clock was our friend. It was time to protect the fruit of our labor. No need to "disguise" anymore, or to "play offense on defense". Play some Inverted Tampa 2, which was made popular in the Big 12. Play all your 3 safeties deep. Play some prevent. Play some dime.

But man free coverage? With a dude who just broke his leg exactly a year ago, covering their supposed track-star? I know Ransom has played well until Nov 26 '22, and maybe you wanted to give him a chance to redeem himself. But you also said you wanted to be careful not to put too much on his plate. Just bad situational football, Jim, bad.

I have yet to come up with an excuse for this yet.
 
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The stats bear out the failures of the last two games. Before The Game, tOSU was in the top-10 in most of the important defensive stats, like scoring defense, total defense, and yards per play.

Looks like those rankings are now 15th in total defense, 27th in scoring defense, and 34th in yards per play. So not only not a top-10 defense, but not even in the top-20.
 
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Bill Lucas said:
The thing that stands out to me is that Georgia had three 3 and outs in the 3rd quarter. Day had oppotunities to go for the jugular. That didn't happen.

Then, in the 4th quarter the defense that mauled Georgia in the 3rd quarter isn't played anymore. Head scratching.
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That's why I don't blame the targeting or anything else. We had our shot to put the game away and failed to do so.
 
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The defense isn't going to get better for more than a year or two at a time until OSU finally finds and keeps a guy for more than a few seasons and then can consistently recruit to improve the talent and depth that it needs for that guy's philosophy. While I'm not happy with Knowles right now, I think he could be that guy. There were big improvements this year over what was basically a clown car flying down the highway, on fire, at 90 mph. We knew the offense would still have to carry the team regardless of what he did.

That being said, the boneheaded and hyper aggressive calls need to stop. If you don't have the personnel to have your DBs on islands, or can't rely on your blitzes getting home, then you have to be a bit more conservative. Most of all, Day and co. need to start winning big recruiting battles to pull in better safety talent if you're going to play 5 all the time. They've had good results so far, but desperately need players like Downs.

pnuts34 said:
Time will tell. But I’m sure the starting S next year will be: Ransom(if he returns), Styles, Stokes. I know I said above that you can’t rely on a true frosh, but the suspected other 2 returning S would Kourt Williams(can’t stay healthy, and captain or not, your best ability is availability) and Cam Martinez(I feel like we saw the back of jersey getting burned on a constant when he was in games). Martinez is probably better out of the 2, and has a better chance to play but he’s going to need to have the off season of his life. You could see 1 frosh start next year, depending on Ransom’s decision. But tbh, I’d be fine if all the draft eligible DBs left and see what OSU with the younger players. In the 2 biggest games of the year, Ransom was embarrassed (he had good plays last night, but be honest, what’s the play everyone remembers from him:roll1:). If OSU went into 2023 with: Styles, Stokes, Hawkins/Hartford/Bonsu would anyone be mad? I’d prefer to get an experienced S in the portal, tbh to go with Styles and Stokes

I do think you need to let him have his players in his system longer than a year, because the seniors on the team, Knowles was their 4th DC. How can you expect to be set up for success with 3 different schemes in your 4yr career?
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I definitely hope Ransom comes back. Haven't seen enough of Styles but I'm impressed that he's played as much as he has as an early enrollee. Stokes looks dangerous in coverage, but prone to terrible angles. The Martinez experiment is pretty much over. The biggest issue I have with his scheme is that it relies on having great safeties that are both really good in coverage and run support, and it's hard enough to just have 2 of those guys. At what point do you just find physical CBs and play them at nickel and call it a day?
 
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