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Could Someone Go Julius Caesar / Augustus on the USA Today?

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ExpatAkronite said:
You need to understand the Jefferson State idea is far different than that of Cascadia. Jefferson is the merging of rural So OR and No CA that would create a true western West Virginia (no manufacturing, no ports, limited access to market for their ag goods--but they'd have lower taxes:bonk:). The idea of Cascadia is the Willamette Valley of OR (Eugene to Portland) up to Seattle and sometimes Vancouver BC (essentially west of the Cascades to the Pacific). And of course lots of hippie chicks.
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There have been a number of proposals for split-off states/nations that encompass the region. "Jefferson" has been used for a minimum three separate plans that I'm aware of. The original 1941 proposal, Tim Draper's 'Six Californias' plan & the vote by a couple of counties in NorCal a few years back. I seem to recall at least one more but I don't remember the details off the top of my head.

I was just using Jefferson/Cascadia as placeholder names for what would likely be a larger split that would encompass at the very least the western halves of NorCA/OR/WA.

Really it's impossible to say exactly how lines would be drawn due to the various groups vying for influence with Western/Urban/Left Wing vs Eastern/Rural/Right Wing being the most likely points of contention.
 
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Muck said:
There have been a number of proposals for split-off states/nations that encompass the region. "Jefferson" has been used for a minimum three separate plans that I'm aware of. The original 1941 proposal, Tim Draper's 'Six Californias' plan & the vote by a couple of counties in NorCal a few years back. I seem to recall at least one more but I don't remember the details.

Really it's impossible to say exactly how lines would be drawn due to the various groups vying for influence with Western/Urban/Left Wing vs Eastern/Rural/Right Wing being the most likely points of contention.
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Water--I think-- may be more the deciding factor than the urban liberal/rural conservative dichotomy. CA is drying up and has long lusted after water from the Columbia. The south has water issues and heavy manufacturing could easily shift back to the Great Lakes states (who--with amazing far sight--have protected their water from leaving the Great Lakes basin). But yeah it is just a game of Risk that makes for entertaining conversation.
 
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ExpatAkronite said:
Water--I think-- may be more the deciding factor than the urban liberal/rural conservative dichotomy. CA is drying up and has long lusted after water from the Columbia. The south has water issues and heavy manufacturing could easily shift back to the Great Lakes states (who--with amazing far sight--have protected their water from leaving the Great Lakes basin). But yeah it is just a game of Risk that makes for entertaining conversation.
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The great lakes governors.. No matter who they are get a nice political back stop that helps them... So any time some clowns want to build a pipeline to Arizona to grow cabbage in the desert (this has happened), they get to be all, "yeah guys, we'd love to help you out.. (Even when they wouldn't).. But uh... You know... Canadians.. So sorry."
 
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Muck said:
I think you would definitely see conflict between Deseret, Aztlán & whatever the western parts of NoCal/Oregon/Washington end up calling itself (Cascadia/Jefferson etc). The Republic of Texas would almost certainly butt heads with Aztlán & might have some squabbles with Sequoyah.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the tree limbs in Mississippi & western Alabama were decorated with white folks.
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who all are you including in the Republic of Texas?

I think Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma are joined at the hip due to those four states being so closely linked in the Oil and Natural gas industries (these 4 states combine for roughly 40% of total US crude oil production and reserves, natural gas production and reserves, and oil refineries).
I can easily see these 4 not really wanting very many of the states that would neighbor this new Republic.

We would be the largest petroleum providers of all the new countries, plus thanks to the large border we'd have with Mexico, most of the Drugs heading into the new countries would flow through us too.
 
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Nutriaitch said:
who all are you including in the Republic of Texas?

I think Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma are joined at the hip due to those four states being so closely linked in the Oil and Natural gas industries (these 4 states combine for roughly 40% of total US crude oil production and reserves, natural gas production and reserves, and oil refineries).
I can easily see these 4 not really wanting very many of the states that would neighbor this new Republic.

We would be the largest petroleum providers of all the new countries, plus thanks to the large border we'd have with Mexico, most of the Drugs heading into the new countries would flow through us too.
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I don't really have exact boundaries in mind. It would be impossible to determine which way areas between the more established power bases will end up going. I could see West Texas going Aztlán & I already listed Sequoyah which would be eastern Oklahoma reverting to First Nation control.

Arkansas & Louisiana could certainly gravitate more towards the Republic of Texas than whatever rises out of Dixie (my comment about Mississippi & western Alabama should make clear I don't see a rebirth of the CSA). Louisiana is such an outlier in the US culturally it is hard to say how it would go.

I think your prediction based on strong economic ties are as likely as anything else.

I'm also certain the location of US Military installations would have a strong impact on where various regions ultimately end up.

As an aside I think it is interesting how closely Div 1 athletic conferences have historically mirrored the various social/geographic/economic groupings in our country.
 
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Muck said:
I don't really have exact boundaries in mind. It would be impossible to determine which way areas between the more established power bases will end up going. I could see West Texas going Aztlán & I already listed Sequoyah which would be eastern Oklahoma reverting to First Nation control.

Arkansas & Louisiana could certainly gravitate more towards the Republic of Texas than whatever rises out of Dixie (my comment about Mississippi & western Alabama should make clear I don't see a rebirth of the CSA). Louisiana is such an outlier in the US culturally it is hard to say how it would go.

I think your prediction based on strong economic ties are as likely as anything else.

I'm also certain the location of US Military installations would have a strong impact on where various regions ultimately end up.

As an aside I think it is interesting how closely Div 1 athletic conferences have historically mirrored the various social/geographic/economic groupings in our country.
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Toffler predicted the breakup of the US into regional powers in The Third Wave in the early 80's. Can't remember what else he predicted (or how accurately) but I was surprised that according to Wikipedia he is "the third-most influential voice among business leaders" behind Bill Gates and Peter Drucker.
 
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Muck said:
Louisiana is such an outlier in the US culturally it is hard to say how it would go.

I think your prediction based on strong economic ties are as likely as anything else.
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I can't really speak on the NM an OK dynamic as it is not one I'm well educated on.

But Louisiana (I-10 corridor to the coast) and Texas (mostly Houston, but Dallas as well) are basically the same place as far as industry.
As in the same companies.
People from both states routinely go to the other to work.

plus Louisiana and Texas pretty much control drilling in the gulf.

No way Texas would let Louisiana go anywhere else considering we have Port Fourchon and LOOP.
 
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