Columbus Blue Jackets (Official Thread)

[3074326]

this happens all the time, in all sports, and it doesn't really hurt trade value. this is one area where you can't pile on howson.

It DOES hurt value. Look at when Dany Heatley was traded from Ottawa, for one example.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[AKAK]

Why would they offer the same package? Howson has no leverage anymore. This is why I'm mad at Howson. Value drops when it's made public that a player wants out. Dany Heatley got very little in return. I expect the same for Nash now, unfortunately.

This is a very sad attempt at a rebuild.

What's more important - showing Nash who is in charge, or getting better? The answer is clear.. but not to the organization..

You're also making the presumption that Nash's agent hasn't run his yap behind the scenes too. Truthfully, when he cam out and made the comment about not expanding the list (even in the summer) that was the first hit to Howson's leverage, methinks.

 

[3074326]

You're also making the presumption that Nash's agent hasn't run his yap behind the scenes too. Truthfully, when he cam out and made the comment about not expanding the list (even in the summer) that was the first hit to Howson's leverage, methinks.

It certainly was. But what does Howson have to gain by throwing Nash under the bus? He definitely isn't going to get more out of it.. it can only hurt.

I'm not trying to paint Nash as an angel here. His agent is a douche too. If you want to get traded, you don't go public about it when you know your boss is actually trying to trade you. And you expand your list. You can't say you want to be traded and make a list of teams that can't fit the contract your worthless boss gave you on the roster. Both sides need to give a little.

I might be so mad because I'm amazed that ownership is letting Scott Howson handle this.

 

[tsteele316]

It DOES hurt value. Look at when Dany Heatley was traded from Ottawa, for one example.

I hope I'm wrong.

eli manning refused to sign with SD and the chargers still got a boatload of picks for him. dwight howard has made it well known that he wants out of orlando, but they still haven't dealt him because they haven't gotten enough. and guess what, when they ultimately deal him, it will be for as much or more than whatever offers they've fielded so far. your assertion is a myth when a team doesn't have to deal a player. if nash gets dealt on draft night, it will be for a deal greater than or equal to what was turned down already.

 

[3074326]

eli manning refused to sign with SD and the chargers still got a boatload of picks for him. dwight howard has made it well known that he wants out of orlando, but they still haven't dealt him because they haven't gotten enough. and guess what, when they ultimately deal him, it will be for as much or more than whatever offers they've fielded so far. your assertion is a myth when a team doesn't have to deal a player. if nash gets dealt on draft night, it will be for a deal greater than or equal to what was turned down already.

My assertion isn't a myth, I gave you an example from the NHL. Can you do the same? It's tough to compare to other sports.

How would this increase his trade value? Just think about it, it doesn't make any sense.

 

[AKAK]

It certainly was. But what does Howson have to gain by throwing Nash under the bus? He definitely isn't going to get more out of it.. it can only hurt.

Point is, I don't think he had more to lose. Keep in mind, he still has Nash under contract, so, that might be the only thing left anyway. The possibility is that the Rangers didn't give Howson what he wanted because they thought he'd cave based on them knowing Nash's desires. Be it from his agent or otherwise (or simply because they knew they were the only team on the list with a "serious" offer).

Also, I think we know enough about Nash's makeup to know he doesn't want to look like the bad guy, and at this point Howson might be trying to shame him into opening the list. My guess is his agent went all douchebag on the whole thing.

At any rate, I don't blame Nash for wanting to be traded, really. And I don't think Howson is all that good of a GM, but, someone must think something of him since they haven't canned him yet. Maybe he gets high marks on his review for administrative functions like getting his TPS reports in on time and filling out his time sheet accurately.

 

[3074326]

And I don't think Howson is all that good of a GM, but, someone must think something of him since they haven't canned him yet. Maybe he gets high marks on his review for administrative functions like getting his TPS reports in on time and filling out his time sheet accurately.

And here's the real problem.. this is what fans should be pissed about. Scott Howson put together the team that was the worst in CBJ history and still has a job. And he did it while spending more money than all but four other teams!

 

[OH10]

I don't have a problem with being mad at Nash, but blaming him for the ineptitude of the organization is hilarious to me.

He's the leader of a team that has quit. I don't know how he escapes a significant amount of blame. We were all too willing to throw it at the feet of Arniel and yet he had even less control over the problem than Nash.

Our problem is that we've been looking for players to compliment Nash when we should have been looking for players that Nash could compliment. He's no captain. He's no alpha dog. I suppose we can blame McLean for selling him as that guy from the beginning.

 

[tsteele316]

My assertion isn't a myth, I gave you an example from the NHL. Can you do the same? It's tough to compare to other sports.

How would this increase his trade value? Just think about it, it doesn't make any sense.

i gave you two examples right off the top. and, it makes perfect sense. columbus is not forced to trade him at all. they are not forced into being sellers. you operating under the assumption that they need to deal him is the fundamental flaw in your reasoning. CBJ has established a baseline offer. if some team wants nash bad enough they will meet or exceed it. this would be the case regardless of whether or not nash asking to be traded was leaked.

by the by, if nash and his agent were requesting a trade, other teams' GMs knew about it, regardless of if it was made public. that should pretty much be common sense.

 

[OH10]

He's 26. There's really no way to spin the Jackets getting Jeff Carter as a negative, but I'm glad you tried I guess.

Filatov has been so close to so many goals this year. He keeps impressing me more every time I see him. He's going to be a stud.

For someone who hates Howson, you've seemed all to willing to support some of his more questionable decision making.

 

[3074326]

He's the leader of a team that has quit. I don't know how he escapes a significant amount of blame. We were all too willing to throw it at the feet of Arniel and yet he had even less control over the problem than Nash.

He escapes a significant amount of blame because he's one player on a team of many, and he has no real impact on who is on his team. He deserves some blame, but leadership only gets you so far. You actually have to have more than a few good players to be a good team. You're expecting him to be something he is not.

I wish Derek Dorsett could score 50 goals. What the fuck is wrong with him?

Our problem is that we've been looking for players to compliment Nash when we should have been looking for players that Nash could compliment. He's no captain. He's no alpha dog. I suppose we can blame McLean for selling him as that guy from the beginning.

How is any of this Nash's fault?

For someone who hates Howson, you've seen all to willing to support some of his more questionable decision making.

Ok, so even if that Filatov quote made any sense in the context of this current discussion, you found two quotes that weren't anti-Howson and all of a sudden I'm a big supporter. Got it. Let's take it a step further and say I was a big Howson supporter (I was not). He ruined it yesterday and I hate him now. There, get every quote you want from the past because they're all fucking irrelevant after yesterday.

EDIT: If you want to do a quote battle, he's a post that's actually relevant in context of this discussion regarding my thoughts on Scott Howson (from 2/14):

Howson is going to run the team even further into the ground, then be fired. It's hilarious and confusing that they're letting Howson handle this. A rebuild has to include the GM that made this disaster. DON'T LET HIM TRADE THE FRANCHISE PLAYER. LET THE NEXT GUY DO IT.

WHAT?!?! I DO NOT SUPPORT HOWSON?!?! BUT I SUPPORTED THINGS HE'S DONE IN THE PAST A COUPLE TIMES!!!!

And I didn't even have to go back to a Filatov post to find it. :p

i gave you two examples right off the top. and, it makes perfect sense. columbus is not forced to trade him at all. they are not forced into being sellers. you operating under the assumption that they need to deal him is the fundamental flaw in your reasoning. CBJ has established a baseline offer. if some team wants nash bad enough they will meet or exceed it. this would be the case regardless of whether or not nash asking to be traded was leaked.

by the by, if nash and his agent were requesting a trade, other teams' GMs knew about it, regardless of if it was made public. that should pretty much be common sense.

The two examples are from different sports that operate totally differently. Columbus is either forced to trade him or keep him and make the locker room suffer. Like I said, I really want to be wrong. I just can't see how anyone is going to offer more for Nash now, especially with Parise on the market this summer. Nash was the premier winger available at the deadline, he'll have competition this summer.

 

[OH10]

He escapes a significant amount of blame because he's one player on a team of many, and he has no real impact on who is on his team. He deserves some blame, but leadership only gets you so far. You actually have to have more than a few good players to be a good team. You're expecting him to be something he is not.

Have you been watching this team? Did you see the season backbreaking performance at Nashville where we blew the 5-2 lead? Leadership (or the lack thereof) is the biggest problem. It's no coincidence that some guys who have played with Nash and left played better with their new clubs. These are legit NHL players, not ditch diggers.

How is any of this Nash's fault?

I suppose it's not his fault he's not as good as people think he is, but it is his fault if he thinks he's just stuck on some bad team without understanding his role in it and where he has come up short. I can't stand when players are just pissed off at the guys around them and don't have the self awareness to look in the mirror.

Ok, so even if that Filatov quote made any sense in the context of this current discussion, you found two quotes that weren't anti-Howson and all of a sudden I'm a big supporter. Got it.

You're the one who has been questioning the Jackets ability to put a team around Nash. They've tried. In the past, you've agreed with the decisions - because, at the time, many of them made sense. So it seems a little hollow for you to now question Howson when he went out and made a huge deal (Carter) that you agreed with at the time - and it was that deal in particular that has defined this terrible season at least from the Howson standpoint.

 

[3074326]

Have you been watching this team? Did you see the season backbreaking performance at Nashville where we blew the 5-2 lead? Leadership (or the lack thereof) is the biggest problem. It's no coincidence that some guys who have played with Nash and left played better with their new clubs. These are legit NHL players, not ditch diggers.

I have been watching this team. I also watch the Penguins. It's clear to me that leadership is far less of a problem than actual talent.

I suppose it's not his fault he's not as good as people think he is, but it is his fault if he thinks he's just stuck on some bad team without understanding his role in it and where he has come up short. I can't stand when players are just pissed off at the guys around them and don't have the self awareness to look in the mirror.

No issues with this.

You're the one who has been questioning the Jackets ability to put a team around Nash. They've tried. In the past, you've agreed with the decisions - because, at the time, many of them made sense. So it seems a little hollow for you to now question Howson when he went out and made a huge deal (Carter) that you agreed with at the time - and it was that deal in particular that has defined this terrible season at least from the Howson standpoint.

I have been questioning their ability to put a team around Nash because they've won zero playoff games ever. They've made the playoffs once. I agreed with the Carter deal at the time because I assumed that Howson did his homework and made sure Carter would be willing to play for the Jackets. He did not. It certainly did define this season, and he needs to be fired for it.

The Jackets have been to the playoffs one time. They have won zero playoff games. It's not me questioning their ability to put a team around him. There is no question about it. This has been the worst franchise in the NHL since it has existed. It runs much deeper than one player, who deserves some blame, certainly, but little in relation to the organization that has failed on every level.

 

[OH10]

I have been watching this team. I also watch the Penguins. It's clear to me that leadership is far less of a problem than actual talent.

It's basically the same, if not better, talent than the team that made the playoffs a couple years ago. I'm not sure what Howson is supposed to do about that.

I have been questioning their ability to put a team around Nash because they've won zero playoff games ever. They've made the playoffs once.

And your fallacy is that you think Nash is the kind of player you build around. That's Howson's fallacy as well - and the fallacy of the management before him.

 

[3074326]

It's basically the same, if not better, talent than the team that made the playoffs a couple years ago. I'm not sure what Howson is supposed to do about that.

The team that made the playoffs had Mason when he was good, and a defense that over-achieved. Mike Commodore just got traded for a 7th rounder and was a staple on that defense.

And your fallacy is that you think Nash is the kind of player you build around. That's Howson's fallacy as well - and the fallacy of the management before him.

I don't think I said that.. I've called him a franchise player before because that's how the organization views him. I do believe he is as talented as any other winger in the league. But it doesn't matter how I or the organization view him if they can't put a competitive group on the ice with him. Talent is a much bigger issue on this team than you're making it sound. It's really bad.