College Playoff

[Zurp]

Last week even Rece Davis during GameDay (yeah, I watched cause it was in Columbus and there was no Fox pregame) said that while you gain something with a playoff you also lose something. He was talking about the importance of big regular season games. It was critical that tOSU win last week because only 4 teams will make the playoff. And it was a huge loss for ND, who will now almost certainly need to win out to finish in the top 4. If there were a 12-team playoff this year, it wouldn’t have meant so much.

It will also diminish the importance of The Game somewhat (as @Jaxbuck has stated, will a potential rematch in the playoffs be more important for certain coaching decisions?). Hell, with B1G expansion, a potential pod system and/or the elimination of the current divisions could actually result in the Buckeyes playing TTUN 3 times in the same season! Which will of course cause idiots like Gerry DiNardo to suggest moving The Game to earlier in the season.

I agree.

The push for expansion went on for so long, and brings in such huge dollars it was probably inevitable, but I also like the current system. There are two aspects of the new 12-team setup that I do appreciate:

1 - The first round bye for the top conference champions will keep teams motivated to win their CCGs, rather than resting stars or playing vanilla in order to save something for the playoffs.

2 - The 5 thru 8 teams hosting the first round games, which will occasionally result in some southern teams playing in a B1G stadium in December.

Again, I agree. I'm surprised it took this long to expand. And there are things I like about this system, as well. My biggest problem is 12 is too many. 8 is too many, but I'd be much happier with 8. 4 or 6 might be the right number. But to your points:
1. Yep. Get to your conference championship game and win it, and there's a very good chance the Big Ten team is watching the first round of games, getting ready for the second round.
2. Yeah, but I'm skeptical it will work out the way we want it to. Say Penn State is #6, and gets to host the #11 team. Well, look at that - Florida State, who was #11 last week, just slipped a spot, and now Notre Dame is #11. #12 Florida State now has to go to #5 Texas A&M. That change may be completely natural. But this guy isn't convinced, yet. Also, I still say put the 2nd round games at the home field sites. Teams 1 through 4 should get a home game, too.

Something else I like:
3. There's no distinction between "Power 5" conferences and "Group of 5" conferences. We all know that there will always be 4 Power 5 conferences represented, and 90% of the time, all 5 will be represented. But don't put that into the rules.

I cut out your stuff about Notre Dame and financials. Not because I don't agree with it, I just don't have a comment on it.

But something I DON'T like about it: Top 6 conference winners get in, regardless of where they are ranked. There should be a cap for the rankings. And it should be very low, compared to the number of teams getting in. Like, 12 teams get in - only rank 16 teams. If the conference winners are #1 Alabama, #2 Ohio State, #4 Clemson, #6 Oklahoma, #8 Oregon, #12 Appalachian State, and #29 Northern Illinois, it's going to bother me that Northern Illinois got in. If you aren't in the Top 15 or 16, you shouldn't be in a 12-team playoff. Replace them with another at-large team.

 

[BB73]

I agree.



Again, I agree. I'm surprised it took this long to expand. And there are things I like about this system, as well. My biggest problem is 12 is too many. 8 is too many, but I'd be much happier with 8. 4 or 6 might be the right number. But to your points:
1. Yep. Get to your conference championship game and win it, and there's a very good chance the Big Ten team is watching the first round of games, getting ready for the second round.
2. Yeah, but I'm skeptical it will work out the way we want it to. Say Penn State is #6, and gets to host the #11 team. Well, look at that - Florida State, who was #11 last week, just slipped a spot, and now Notre Dame is #11. #12 Florida State now has to go to #5 Texas A&M. That change may be completely natural. But this guy isn't convinced, yet. Also, I still say put the 2nd round games at the home field sites. Teams 1 through 4 should get a home game, too.

Something else I like:
3. There's no distinction between "Power 5" conferences and "Group of 5" conferences. We all know that there will always be 4 Power 5 conferences represented, and 90% of the time, all 5 will be represented. But don't put that into the rules.

I cut out your stuff about Notre Dame and financials. Not because I don't agree with it, I just don't have a comment on it.

But something I DON'T like about it: Top 6 conference winners get in, regardless of where they are ranked. There should be a cap for the rankings. And it should be very low, compared to the number of teams getting in. Like, 12 teams get in - only rank 16 teams. If the conference winners are #1 Alabama, #2 Ohio State, #4 Clemson, #6 Oklahoma, #8 Oregon, #12 Appalachian State, and #29 Northern Illinois, it's going to bother me that Northern Illinois got in. If you aren't in the Top 15 or 16, you shouldn't be in a 12-team playoff. Replace them with another at-large team.

How the teams get selected from 1 to 12 is obviously a big deal. The cutoffs at 4, 8, and 12 will get a great deal of discussion every year. I think I’d be in favor of having an old BCS-type system combining polls and computer rankings to determine it, rather than a committee, especially not a committee heavily influenced by ESPN as it is now. If rematches happen, so be it, but don’t adjust the rankings based on biases and perceived market factors, such as which stadiums would be used for #s 5 thru 8, or what the TV matchups will look like.

I’ve been sick of ESPN telling us that we need to expand the playoffs for the past 15 to 20 years, at least that’s over. I’m sick of hearing their biases due to their ownership of the SEC and ACC networks. And I’m sick of their influence on everything from recruiting rankings to their pathetic football power index. Kevin Warren, and other commissioners, don’t let them have any control over the ranking.selection process. I already know I’ll be sick of ESPN telling us there should be at least 5 SEC teams among the 12 every year.

And I understand and agree with your point on lower ranked conference champs, but I must pedantically point out that Northern Illinois was the 7th conference champ in your list. Just to prove that I was paying attention.

 

[cincibuck]

I'm not sure I know what we're talking about, anymore. Are you saying you are or are not in favor of home field for better-seeded teams?

I’m saying it’s not a national championship if the semi-final and final games are allocated to the current bowl system.

 

[Zurp]

How the teams get selected from 1 to 12 is obviously a big deal. The cutoffs at 4, 8, and 12 will get a great deal of discussion every year. I think I’d be in favor of having an old BCS-type system combining polls and computer rankings to determine it, rather than a committee, especially not a committee heavily influenced by ESPN as it is now. If rematches happen, so be it, but don’t adjust the rankings based on biases and perceived market factors, such as which stadiums would be used for #s 5 thru 8, or what the TV matchups will look like.

I’ve been sick of ESPN telling us that we need to expand the playoffs for the past 15 to 20 years, at least that’s over. I’m sick of hearing their biases due to their ownership of the SEC and ACC networks. And I’m sick of their influence on everything from recruiting rankings to their pathetic football power index. Kevin Warren, and other commissioners, don’t let them have any control over the ranking.selection process. I already know I’ll be sick of ESPN telling us there should be at least 5 SEC teams among the 12 every year.

No argument from me on the above. It'll probably still be a committee, but I'd prefer some mathematical formula be used better, rather than "eye test".

And I understand and agree with your point on lower ranked conference champs, but I must pedantically point out that Northern Illinois was the 7th conference champ in your list. Just to prove that I was paying attention.

Dang - that was unintentional. I meant for the 6th conference champion to be ranked really low. Good catch. Cross Appy State off the list of champions, I guess. #29 shouldn't be in the playoffs, in my IMO.

I’m saying it’s not a national championship if the semi-final and final games are allocated to the current bowl system.

They're currently in the bowl system. Is it not a national championship now?

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

I do wonder what will happen to the bowls, since I do enjoy watching the bowl games. It’s fun to watch the inter conference matchups of middle teams. Losing the top 12 to the playoffs and getting rid of the NY6 is essentially the same. They will use the same 6 bowl sites for the rounds of 8 and 4. All of the lower bowls will remain moderately interesting if the continue to exist.

I do think it’s stupid that they will name the playoff games after bowl games. So if you win a national title you would also have a rose bowl and cotton bowl trophies? If you lose in the title game you have two other participation trophies, yay. In the current structure the rose bowl is meaningless 1/3 of the time. This makes it meaningless every year.

 

[pnuts34]

I do wonder what will happen to the bowls, since I do enjoy watching the bowl games. It’s fun to watch the inter conference matchups of middle teams. Losing the top 12 to the playoffs and getting rid of the NY6 is essentially the same. They will use the same 6 bowl sites for the rounds of 8 and 4. All of the lower bowls will remain moderately interesting if the continue to exist.

I do think it’s stupid that they will name the playoff games after bowl games. So if you win a national title you would also have a rose bowl and cotton bowl trophies? If you lose in the title game you have two other participation trophies, yay. In the current structure the rose bowl is meaningless 1/3 of the time. This makes it meaningless every year.

The bowls are all irrelevant exhibitions, and have been for years. National championship or your year doesn’t matter. We’ve been at this place since the CFP was created, and tbh it’s been like that for a while. That’s what always frustrated me about CFB(and one of the reasons why I prefer to watch more NFL than CFB), you have a Nation Champion at the end of the year, but then your team is supposed to be happy about winning some bowl game like the Cotton, Rose, Citrus, Alamo, etc. That’s like a team winning the Super Bowl and then the other teams play for participation ribbons. You either win the whole thing or you don’t.
I don’t understand though why they’re playing at bowl sites and not campuses. Again, why play regular season games in all these very nice stadiums that many rival their NFL counterparts, and then when the playoffs rolls around they ignore them

 

[cincibuck]

They're currently in the bowl system. Is it not a national championship now?

Exactly, and it's time to break those ties. These are no longer "exhibition games" as they were originally pitched. So let's make them national in settings. Play the qualifying games on home fields. Then put the finals into 4 locations, North, East, West, and South and rotate the semi-final and final games between those four locations. Let the sun belt folks spend some travel money. Let their teams play games without the "home field" feeling connected to the current bowl locations. You CAN play football in cold weather just as easy as you can in monsoon rains, mudslides, and earthquakes.

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

The fact that ND can’t get a first round bye as an independent is something I also like, but if they are able to keep their full playoff share as an independent, they’ll only need to make the top-12 once every 3 or 4 years to profit from that.

For example, say that the playoff generates $720 million per season (a number picked to facilitate the math). That’s $60m for each team, if the money is evenly split among the 12. If the B1G gets 3 teams in during 2026 or later, I believe 16 teams would split $180m; if they get 4 in, it’s a split of $240m. So each team, assuming the even split continues, would get $11.25m or $15m, depending.

So over a 4-year span, each B1G team could get an estimated $52.5m, if the B1G got 3 teams twice and 4 teams twice. But ND would get a full $60m if they make it once, and $180m if they make the top-12 in 3 of the 4 seasons. I think that will be the factor that makes them stay independent.

Another way to split the playoff money, rather than just among the 12 teams, would be to split it based on the number of participations in all of the games. There will be 11 games, so that’s a total of 22 appearances among the 12 teams. They could choose to split the money 22 ways based on which teams advance to further rounds. So a team playing in 2 or 3 games would earn more than a team that loses their playoff opener.

I believe that the teams hosting the games as 5 thru 8 seeds should be able to keep all of the money from ticket sales, etc., without having to split it with other conference members. The bowl games included in the future playoff games would probably put a share of their money into the playoff pot, while continuing to get rich off of college football.

But those are the things that Gene Smith, Kevin Warren, and Jack Swarbrick will be considering, because how the money gets split is very significant.

This had me curious, so I did some research. I'd guess the new system will be similar to the old.

Basically of the $472M per year, only $24M goes to the playoff teams, and $32M goes to the other NY6 participants. The power 5 conferences get $74M each. Plus 300K for being bowl eligible.

So in years the Big Ten gets 1 team in the playoff and 2 in the other NY6, and 10 bowl eligible, which is most typical they split 74+6+8+3=91M. That is $6.5M per school.

ND gets $3.5M for being bowl eligible (happened 4 times), they get $7.5M if they make a NY6 (happened twice), they get $9.5M for making playoffs (happened twice). So they average $6 per year so far. I don't think they'll make a NY6 this year.

The following is a breakdown of the CFP revenue distribution:

• For the 2022-23 academic year:
  1. Each conference will receive $300,000 for each of its schools when the school’s football team meets the NCAA’s APR for participation in a postseason football game. Each independent institution will also receive $300,000 when its football team meets that standard.
     
  2. A conference will receive $6 million for each team that is selected for a Playoff Semifinal. There will be no additional distribution to conferences whose teams qualify for the national championship game. A conference will receive $4 million for each team that plays in a non-playoff bowl under the arrangement.
     
  3. Each conference whose team participates in a Playoff Semifinal, Cotton, Fiesta, or Peach bowls, or in the national championship game will receive $2.74 million to cover expenses for each game.
• Based on calculations from the 2021-22 season, the following distributions were made in the spring of 2022 (Estimates for the 2022-23 season will be finalized following the 2023 CFP National Championship.):
  1. Each of the 10 conferences received a base amount. For conferences that have contracts for their champions to participate in the Orange, Rose, or Sugar bowls, the base combined with the full academic performance pool was approximately $74 million for each conference. The five conferences that do not have contracts for their champions to participate in the Orange, Rose or Sugar bowls received approximately $95 million in aggregate (full academic pool plus base). The conferences distribute these funds as they choose. Notre Dame received a payment of $3.55 million by meeting the APR standard; the other six independents shared $1.88 million.
     
  2. Certain conferences in the Football Championship Subdivision received approximately $2.96 million in aggregate.

https://collegefootballplayoff.com/sports/2017/9/20/revenue-distribution.aspx

 

[ScriptOhio]

There's no doubt that expansion is coming to the College Football Playoff. But, the difficult work has yet to be tackled as conference commissioners work toward instituting a 12-team format beginning as soon as 2024.

The CFP's 10 conference commissioners and Notre Dame athletics director, Jack Swarbrick, are scheduled to meet again next week in Chicago to discuss the logistics of expanding earlier than the 2026 season. This comes as a directive from university presidents and chancellors who requested in August that the four-team playoff system be changed once the contract expires after the 2026 season.

The logistics of the new playoff system is not expected to be settles at next week's meeting for many reasons. To start, the group cannot solidify when the expanded playoff will begin because of issues with future academic calendars and the NFL's television window which begins in mid-December every football season.

"I expect we'll spend a lot of time on the calendar," SEC commissioner, Greg Sankey, told 247Sports following a Rotary Club speaking engagement inside the Clinton Presidential Library & Museum on Tuesday. "I would put the dates for these games at the top of the list of things where we need to spend time."

That leaves CFP with a difficult decision to make: should first-round games played on campuses—along with quarterfinal and semifinal games at bowl sites—be scheduled on weeknights? Doing so would be especially problematic for the first round of the CFP which would occur during the third week of December when the NFL owns the airwaves on Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday.

"We'll see. I'd say 'probably'," Sankey explained to 247Sports. "But I don't know that that's likely. I think that that when you're trying to play four games, that doesn't happen in a day, but that's exactly the reason we have to dig into the calendar—to have a full understanding."
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continued

Entire article: https://247sports.com/Article/Colle...kday-games-bowl-games-sec-playoffs-193803964/

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

I’m confused. The playoffs don’t start until mid January. CFB season ends first weekend in December. They literally have 4 weeks. They can play all of the games on Saturday and still have army/navy weekend as a bye week. I mean damn they could push the champ game from Monday to Thursday or Friday and have another bye week. I fucking hate the Monday nights championship game.

 

[Zurp]

I’m confused. The playoffs don’t start until mid January. CFB season ends first weekend in December. They literally have 4 weeks. They can play all of the games on Saturday and still have army/navy weekend as a bye week. I mean damn they could push the champ game from Monday to Thursday or Friday and have another bye week. I fucking hate the Monday nights championship game.

I think this is the problem:

That leaves CFP with a difficult decision to make: should first-round games played on campuses—along with quarterfinal and semifinal games at bowl sites—be scheduled on weeknights? Doing so would be especially problematic for the first round of the CFP which would occur during the third week of December when the NFL owns the airwaves on Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday.

Entire article: https://247sports.com/Article/Colle...kday-games-bowl-games-sec-playoffs-193803964/

Personally, I think college playoffs will get a better rating than the NFL on Saturday. They seem to play about 4 NFL games on Saturdays after the college season ends. Would you rather watch Round 1 of CFP, where Notre Dame is hosting Penn State, or Detroit vs. Tampa Bay? I understand that College Football ought not start a fight with the NFL, but I think the two organizations can work this out.

Also, Monday night championship games are not going away.

 

[ScriptOhio]

College Football Playoff: Ohio State, Michigan both making field possible according to Paul Finebaum

ESPN analyst Paul Finebaum shared his thoughts on the potential of that situation.

“I think we could see a double-whammy with Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State and Michigan all being undefeated,” Finebaum said on KJM. “Now that’s only if Clemson drops a game which that could happen. They’re at Wake [Forest] this week, You would have to see USC stumble out in the West, maybe more than once … It’s possible, not likely. Otherwise I think it would be pretty tough. And then one other thing, it would be helpful if Alabama drops a game, and I think there’s a reasonable chance that could happen. But don’t forget Michigan still has to go to Iowa, they look great right now but three games into, they haven’t played a good team. So I’m going to hold off on getting too carried away with Jim Harbaugh’s team yet.”

Entire article: https://247sports.com/college/ohio-...cg18xM70r3k7CDRtS4qPHxzKSv1Ag4f8c5qD0C5PszbSs

 

[Zurp]

College Football Playoff: Ohio State, Michigan both making field possible according to Paul Finebaum

ESPN analyst Paul Finebaum shared his thoughts on the potential of that situation.

Possible. Not likely. If all four are undefeated going into the end of the season, obviously the loser of The Game won't make the conference championship game. Alabama and Georgia could go into their conference championship game undefeated, but either Ohio State or *ichigan will be left out. Whichever team that is will have to hope for some help from outside. Like, what Finebaum said, Clemson will have to help by losing. Alabama and Georgia don't need as much help, because... you know... SEC and all.

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

I think this is the problem:



Personally, I think college playoffs will get a better rating than the NFL on Saturday. They seem to play about 4 NFL games on Saturdays after the college season ends. Would you rather watch Round 1 of CFP, where Notre Dame is hosting Penn State, or Detroit vs. Tampa Bay? I understand that College Football ought not start a fight with the NFL, but I think the two organizations can work this out.

Also, Monday night championship games are not going away.

Don’t know about years past. This year the only Saturday nfl game before mid January is Christmas weekend. Likely because Sunday is Christmas.

I think they could get creative with the holidays as people have a lot of days off so weekend isn’t as valuable. It’s basically 5 weekends to play 4 games. There are a lot of creative ways to do it while still giving the players a few extra days to rest between games.

Also interesting the college football championship game is the only week of no MNF nfl game. Which is the last week of the regular season. I wonder if that is because they don’t want the competition. So that makes me think they’d give up those Saturday games.

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

Possible. Not likely. If all four are undefeated going into the end of the season, obviously the loser of The Game won't make the conference championship game. Alabama and Georgia could go into their conference championship game undefeated, but either Ohio State or *ichigan will be left out. Whichever team that is will have to hope for some help from outside. Like, what Finebaum said, Clemson will have to help by losing. Alabama and Georgia don't need as much help, because... you know... SEC and all.

Based on the current rankings, Georgia, Bama, Ohio state and ttun would be the best looking 1 loss teams in the country if no one makes it out of another conference unscathed. Provided the loss is close and to one of the teams listed. Clemsons schedule is straight garbage, Oklahoma and USC could make an argument and I would rather see one of them honestly.