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Cleveland Indians Thread of Malaise (2014 Season)

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LitlBuck said:
there is a big difference between .333 and .408
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.395 was Speaker's in 1912, which was the cited year. The OBP that year, which is a far more valuable stat than BA was .458 for Joe and .442 for Manny, pretty dang close. 3 HR's and 90 RBI is a big difference to Manny's as well at 44/165.

I think it's incredibly hard to compare stats between those two generations but my point being I think Manny is up there for best RF season all time for the Tribe.
 
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bigdog3300 said:
.395 was Speaker's in 1912, which was the cited year. The OBP that year, which is a far more valuable stat than BA was .458 for Joe and .442 for Manny, pretty dang close. 3 HR's and 90 RBI is a big difference to Manny's as well at 44/165.

I think it's incredibly hard to compare stats between those two generations but my point being I think Manny is up there for best RF season all time for the Tribe.
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While I agree with you, Rocky Colovitio also played RF for Cleveland back in the 50s and early 60s before getting traded to Detroit by trader Lane for Harvey Kuenne.
 
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bigdog3300 said:
Granted I was not alive in 1912, but I have a hard time not giving Manny Ramirez the nod at RF for 1999.

165 RBI in 147 games, .333 ba, over a 1.1 OPS, .442 OBS, wowza....

Nothing will beat watching that '95 era Tribe to me. The young talent was remarkable.....once in a lifetime, sadly.
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Here's what I will say on this, and let me preface by saying that I would agree with the comparing eras aspect... but... When Ramirez got the 165 RBI's that was the most in a season since Jimmy Foxx in 1938, and only Sammy Sosa has had 160 since then. Anyway, I don't feel that strongly about it, Hal Trosky had 162 at first base in 1936 and these guys gave it 2nd honorable mention and misspelled the guy's name in the process while referencing the 1937 season which if you feel like it you can look up... in '36 Trosky went .342/42/162 with 45 doubles and 405 Total bases. (In no way am I discounting Thome's 2002, but, I'm not sure it was a "relatively easy call")
 
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LitlBuck said:
I will be very interested in watching the Carlos Santana experiment at third base. If it works out, it could really help the Indians offensively.
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It's definitely a significant step up from the blackhole that position has been for years. But, if Santana's offensive production remains as it's been for the past couple of seasons, he's still only average at best for the position. Like many people have said, Santana's value lays as an excellent offensive value behind the plate. Anywhere else, he's pretty average. Unfortunately, his defense and Yan Gomes have pushed him away from where he's most valuable.
 
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NFBuck said:
It's definitely a significant step up from the blackhole that position has been for years. But, if Santana's offensive production remains as it's been for the past couple of seasons, he's still only average at best for the position. Like many people have said, Santana's value lays as an excellent offensive value behind the plate. Anywhere else, he's pretty average. Unfortunately, his defense and Yan Gomes have pushed him away from where he's most valuable.
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So.... do you want average 3B production... or Chis?
 
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NFBuck said:
Not knocking the move, just lamenting that he's no longer where he's most valuable.
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While that's true, I'd say statistically he's as good offensively as a plus 2B, as well, and given that our 2B is trending toward a plus 3B offensively... blah blah blah...

Better than Chis. Did I say that already?

I still would have rather given Asdrubal a pile of deer antler velvet and moved him there.
 
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Thank you Baltimore for taking the Big U for 4 years and $50 million. It will be interesting to see how he performs with a new pitching coach.

I also do not think Masterson is worth $11 million which he is asking for in arbitration. I just do not see how he can justify that. The salaries in baseball are just out of whack.
 
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LitlBuck said:
Thank you Baltimore for taking the Big U for 4 years and $50 million. It will be interesting to see how he performs with a new pitching coach.

I also do not think Masterson is worth $11 million which he is asking for in arbitration. I just do not see how he can justify that. The salaries in baseball are just out of whack.
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Well they beat Tomlin and Pestano (yes, I know, that's like beating the Browns at home) so they probably are confident in their position or they wouldn't be willing to go to arbitration.
 
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LitlBuck said:
Thank you Baltimore for taking the Big U for 4 years and $50 million. It will be interesting to see how he performs with a new pitching coach.

I also do not think Masterson is worth $11 million which he is asking for in arbitration. I just do not see how he can justify that. The salaries in baseball are just out of whack.
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Well they beat Tomlin and Pestano (yes, I know, that's like beating the Browns at home) so they probably are confident in their position or they wouldn't be willing to go to arbitration.
 
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Bucklion said:
Well they beat Tomlin and Pestano (yes, I know, that's like beating the Browns at home) so they probably are confident in their position or they wouldn't be willing to go to arbitration.
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this was always going to arbitration. arbitration will be the baseline when talking extension with masterson this upcoming season.

but baltimore must be batshit crazy to give ubaldo 4 years and nearly $50 million. a guy that has about one half a season of good pitching in the last three years, one in which his peripherals would indicate may be hard to duplicate. add to that the fact that he is 30, but has been as healthy as you could imagine, and he's due for an injury. scary contract.
 
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tsteele316 said:
this was always going to arbitration. arbitration will be the baseline when talking extension with masterson this upcoming season.

but baltimore must be bat[Mark May] crazy to give ubaldo 4 years and nearly $50 million. a guy that has about one half a season of good pitching in the last three years, one in which his peripherals would indicate may be hard to duplicate. add to that the fact that he is 30, but has been as healthy as you could imagine, and he's due for an injury. scary contract.
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I see Carl Pavano to the Yankees results in that one.
 
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