Cleveland Indians (official 2012 season)

[Zippercat]

I blame all of this mess on Shapiro and Antoinetti. Yeah, they have brought in a couple good players over the past 10 years but they really have not done anything when it comes to building the farm system with draft picks. The teams of the 90s were built by Hart not by Shapiro. He really needs to go along with Ant.... They probably can take Acta with them but I do not know if I want Sandy as a new manager. I would like to see someone with a little fire in their belly take over this mess. At least then when they lose, it might be entertaining.

At least part of the draft problem also has to be tossed at Dolon's feet. A significant factor in determining who the Indians could draft was "signability." Players who demanded way above slot signing bonus were passed over so that Detroit, Boston, NYY, etc. could get them.

Maybe, just maybe, the changes under last year's new collective bargaining agreement -creating mandatory bonus pool limits for the amateur player draft and limits on international player signings- will level that field a bit and give the Tribe more chances to sign decent players?

 

[jlb1705]

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php...-then-told-him-to-get-his-d-out-of-his-mouth/

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXo-eathEgE"]Chris Perez keepin it real profesianal - YouTube[/ame]

Chris Perez, the All-Star relief pitcher for the Cleveland Indians, decided to humor this douchy Oakland A?s fan and engage the clown in some trash talk. The A?s fan seems very angry about something ? or perhaps he?s just going after Perez because he?s known as a hot head ? but seems unprepared for the verbal barrage Perez unleashes. Perez opens up aggressively, boasting he has ?more saves than your whole fucking team.?


Oakland fan ? we?re ahead of you in the standings!

Perez: ?I don?t give a fuck. I don?t give a fuck. What?s my salary??

Oakland fan ? how many blown saves do you have?

Perez: ?Four. Was I an All-Star again you piece of shit??
[Perez tells an usher to kick the loser out of the stadium.]

Perez: ?Get your dick out of your mouth.?

Oakland fan ? you?re classlees, bro! get a haircut!

And then Perez walks away high-fiving a teammate.

Chris Perez: hero.

Perez will probably be disciplined, and deservedly so. The Oakland douches should be banned from the park though. People have been kicked out for less, and MLB doesn't need this shit.

Society can fuck right off. I can't believe we now live in a world where somebody can hold a camera in your face and talk shit about you all they want, and if you respond, YOU'RE the one who's the asshole.

 

[Bucklion]

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php...-then-told-him-to-get-his-d-out-of-his-mouth/

Chris Perez keepin it real profesianal - YouTube

Perez will probably be disciplined, and deservedly so. The Oakland douches should be banned from the park though. People have been kicked out for less, and MLB doesn't need this [Mark May].

Society can [censored] right off. I can't believe we now live in a world where somebody can hold a camera in your face and talk [Mark May] about you all they want, and if you respond, YOU'RE the one who's the asshole.

Honestly I think Perez would have been just fine with no discipline had he not told the guy to get his dick out of his mouth

Maybe Perez can just use the excuse he thought he was a Cleveland fan...

 

[AKAK]

And Brantley...

The problem is those 4 guys are just fine...for your 3-6th best players. Unfortunately they are 1-4 on this team, with a drop-off down Mount Kilimanjaro after that, with guys like fucking Lillibridge actually playing most every day. Seriously, this team has role players for stars and 1-2x a week utility guys as role players. If there is talent anywhere, it is in A, maybe Double A, because all the guys at AAA they say "aren't prospects anymore", whatever the fuck that means. But even more troubling is the state of the SP, which has gone from an embarrassment of riches to just being an embarrassment. They went from having 8-9 guys they thought could start to having 6-7 armadillo turds and a kid or 2 who might pan out as #3 or #4 guys in a few years. Seriously Jeff Karstens could be the fucking ace on this team. McAllister might pan out and Gomez could still conceivably get it figured out. Kluber it's hard to say, but he isn't exactly Strasburg out there. After that, we have nothing we can depend on. Masterson is a 9-12 pitcher who will shut down 5-6 lineups at random times during a season and lay a pumpkin fart in most of the rest of his starts. Ubaldo is a disaster. The rest of the guys have either been cut, will be cut, or should never have been signed in the first place.

Well... of course it's difficult to really get a feel for pitching staffs... top of the rotation starters are kind of lucked into half the time. Shit, maybe we traded those dude for Ubaldo because the indians watched them everyday. I say we shut Ubaldo down, take him in for an oil change and make sure he's healthy and see if we can get an old Ubaldo April and May out of him and move the dude. What's he got, team option or arbitration through 14? I forget.

Yeah, and if you take the Pronk/Grady money, I don't even know where to start spending that... And, yeah, I don't like Choo... never have. Sorry, Choo lovers... move on from his head case ass.

 

[tsteele316]

You should be able to get more than a decent OFer and a backup catcher for 2 cy young pitchers.....there is no way to spin those 2 trades as anything other than awful

you take the best talent you can get. whether those guys pan out or not is to a large degree variable. it's not like an nfl trade where you get draft picks. the bottom line is that some of the players they got in those trades were deemed to be high level major leaguers.

to use an nfl analogy, it's like drafting robert gallery or aaron curry. those were considered no brainer picks by everyone at the time. neither panned out. it's not like the raiders taking darius heyward bey.

the indians are going to trade chris perez and choo in the near future. some of the players they get in return will be busts. it's pretty much unavoidable.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

the indians are going to trade chris perez and choo in the near future. some of the players they get in return will be busts. it's pretty much unavoidable.

If by "some", you mean "all", I agree.

 

[LitlBuck]

I don't think they will get much in return for Choo because every team knows said he is going to be a free agent after next year. Perhaps they should hold onto him until the trading line next year and there might be more of a bidding war for him. Perez, on the other hand, can be dealt anytime as far as I am concerned.

As I have stated when Lee and CC were traded, it is always a crapshoot when you get "prospects" in return. I think we all have seen it waaay too many times especially when it comes to the Tribe.

 

[buckeyemania11]

you take the best talent you can get. whether those guys pan out or not is to a large degree variable. it's not like an nfl trade where you get draft picks. the bottom line is that some of the players they got in those trades were deemed to be high level major leaguers.

to use an nfl analogy, it's like drafting robert gallery or aaron curry. those were considered no brainer picks by everyone at the time. neither panned out. it's not like the raiders taking darius heyward bey.

the indians are going to trade chris perez and choo in the near future. some of the players they get in return will be busts. it's pretty much unavoidable.

The "top" prospect in the Cliff Lee trade was Jason Knapp

The Indians KNEW he was an injury case at the time of the trade and still took it....now 3 surgeries later he was just released by the Tribe

how does this not qualify as retarded?

 

[AKAK]

The "top" prospect in the Cliff Lee trade was Jason Knapp

The Indians KNEW he was an injury case at the time of the trade and still took it....now 3 surgeries later he was just released by the Tribe

how does this not qualify as retarded?

Depends what the other offers were.

 

[tsteele316]

The "top" prospect in the Cliff Lee trade was Jason Knapp

The Indians KNEW he was an injury case at the time of the trade and still took it....now 3 surgeries later he was just released by the Tribe

how does this not qualify as retarded?

actually carlos carrasco was the top prospect in that trade, and knapp was thought to have bicep tendonitis, not a deformed shoulder. so, aside from those two little details, i guess you're right.

 

[buckeyemania11]

actually carlos carrasco was the top prospect in that trade, and knapp was thought to have bicep tendonitis, not a deformed shoulder. so, aside from those two little details, i guess you're right.

It's either really bad luck or really poor scouting or a perfect storm of both

also any player of note they have given an extension too lately seems to either slip into extreme suck or not be able to stay healthy (Sizemore, Hafner, Carmona)

 

[Zippercat]

They're now grading defeats.

That's how Hoynsie of the Plain Dealer described the Indians after last night's loss to Seattle. That short sentence might be the most descriptive way I've seen to detail just how low this season has fallen.


http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/08/cleveland_indians_2.html

 

[tsteele316]

It's either really bad luck or really poor scouting or a perfect storm of both

also any player of note they have given an extension too lately seems to either slip into extreme suck or not be able to stay healthy (Sizemore, Hafner, Carmona)

don't forget westbrook, who was as reliable as they come until he signed that extension and blew out his arm.

 

[LitlBuck]

Speaking of arms blowing out

Pitcher Josh Tomlin is scheduled to visit Dr. Lewis Yocum on Tuesday in Los Angeles to have his sore right elbow checked out. Yocum is an expert in Tommy John surgery

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/08/chris_perez_has_no_regrets_abo.html

and speaking of draft picks
from same link​

Outfielder Tyler Naquin, the Indians' No. 1 pick in the June draft, is expected to be back in Class A Mahoning Valley's starting lineup Tuesday after being sidelined with back spasms. Naquin has played only 33 of a possible 58 games for the Scrappers, but is hitting .285 (37-for-130) with 21 runs, 11 doubles, two triples, no homers​

 

[Bucklion]

Speaking of arms blowing out
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/08/chris_perez_has_no_regrets_abo.html

and speaking of draft picks
from same link​

Naquin will be on the Major League DL in no time...