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Cleveland Indians (official 2012 season)

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By Bob Hunter

In August 2009, a week after the Cleveland Indians traded Cy Young Award winner Cliff Lee and All-Star catcher Victor Martinez, then-club president Paul Dolan explained to reporters why jettisoning two star players who still had over a year left on their contracts was a good thing.
?I know the fans are not happy with us now, but they would be more unhappy in years to come if we hadn?t done this,? he said. ?We have to look to 2010, 2011 and beyond, even to 2012 and 2013."

So with about five weeks to go in the 2012 season, it only seems appropriate to ask: Is everybody happy?

With the Tribe lugging a cumbersome 54-70 record and an eight-game losing streak into a three-game series with the New York Yankees, the answer seems pretty obvious. To this point, the Indians? prospect-collecting ways have been successful ? in Columbus. The Clippers have won two triple-A national titles. In Cleveland, the budget-conscious plan has mostly been a bust.

If you have a weak stomach, it might be best to sit out this quick review of the team?s recent past:
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Although it still might happen for a few of them, the grand plan hatched by the Dolans, team president Mark Shapiro and general manager Chris Antonetti has been an abysmal failure.
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He sums it up pretty good .
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2012/08/24/indians-gambled-lost-on-prospects.html
 
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Bucklion;2199176; said:
A case of Turtle wax, a year's supply of Ricearoni (The San Francisco treat!) and a SP who is 14-68 with an ERA over 7 in A ball who has had arm surgery 6 times?
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I think I would trade Choo during the winter because he probably will hurt himself if he goes to spring training and then we will get a torn rotator cuff in return:bonk:
 
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y0yoyoin;2199169; said:
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/j...o-will-again-listen-to-trade-offers-in-winter


cant wait to see the blue chip prospects antonetti steals for him
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My sincere hope is that he's not around to make that decision. This front office has run this franchise into the ground. The talent at the ML level is horrific, and the farm is just as bad, if not worse. The "rebuilding strategy" that started in 2008 has been an abject failure, and we're years away from legitimate contention. If Shapiro/Antonetti are both here making decisions in December, the franchise can fuck off, they deserve to draw < 10K fans a game.
 
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Bucklion;2199210; said:
Good luck with that. One thing that is clear about the Dolans is that they think Shapiro is a God, and no amount of decades of losing will change that opinion.
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Dolan's recent comments leave the door open for some house cleaning this winter. Whether he has the stones to go through with it, well, we'll see. I'm not hopeful. But, if he's not gonna hold those responsible for the piss-poor state of his franchise accountable, he can't bitch about an apathetic fanbase. I'd argue that right now, this franchise is in the worst shape of any in mlb. That demands action.

Shapiro's reputation was built nearly a decade ago. He has done nothing in the last 6-7 years to warrant any kind of job security. And Antonetti? He's been a disaster thus far. That Ubald-O trade is a fireable offense IMO. Maybe the drafts start panning out in 3-4 years...but that's a really long time with sagging fan interest.
 
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http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/08/cleveland_indians_owner_paul_d.html

BTW here are Dolan's comments last night...some of these are too funny :slappy:

"I have to understand what's happened. I'm not going to have that understanding today"

"I don't know how (to explain the free fall),'' Dolan said. "I don't understand exactly what's happened -- other than we haven't performed at virtually every level of the game for the last month."

"We have to understand what happened, and I'm not going to make judgments on that right now. It's going to take more time..."

"The fact that we haven't won consistently is frustrating to all of us. But we have been, on balance, a team that has accomplished some things, in contrast to some teams that have done nothing."

It's no wonder this jackinapes never faces the press...God forbid if they ever actually asked him a question that required an answer beyond "I am rich and clueless". :shake:
 
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NFBuck;2199226; said:
Shapiro's reputation was built nearly a decade ago. He has done nothing in the last 6-7 years to warrant any kind of job security. And Antonetti? He's been a disaster thus far. That Ubald-O trade is a fireable offense IMO. Maybe the drafts start panning out in 3-4 years...but that's a really long time with sagging fan interest.
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in hindsight i agree...this would have been a better trade IF Antonetti lived up to his promise of having a 2 year window in which we were competing for the playoffs and possibly a world series push...instead this off season he signs casey crotchman, johnny damon, derek lowe and jose lopez....................................................................................................................
 
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y0yoyoin;2199236; said:
in hindsight i agree...this would have been a better trade IF Antonetti lived up to his promise of having a 2 year window in which we were competing for the playoffs and possibly a world series push...instead this off season he signs casey crotchman, johnny damon, derek lowe and jose lopez....................................................................................................................
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That's my beef with the trade. It's not about whether or not Pomeranz ever lives up to the hype (chances are, in Denver, he won't), it's that it was a stupid and pointless trade. The guy had a ton of red flags, was pitching poorly, and this team wasn't talented enough that adding him would make any difference. Add on the fact that they still did next to nothing last winter, and it's just an abysmal failure. Now we're stuck with a 10-15, 5.00+ ERA guy instead of a very good prospect. Total crap.
 
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NFBuck;2199251; said:
That's my beef with the trade. It's not about whether or not Pomeranz ever lives up to the hype (chances are, in Denver, he won't), it's that it was a stupid and pointless trade. The guy had a ton of red flags, was pitching poorly, and this team wasn't talented enough that adding him would make any difference. Add on the fact that they still did next to nothing last winter, and it's just an abysmal failure. Now we're stuck with a 10-15, 5.00+ ERA guy instead of a very good prospect. Total crap.
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it was the thin air in Colorado:wink:

Ubaldo Jimenez?s frustrating season continues to baffle him and the Cleveland Indians? front office. He is 1-5 with an 8.83 ERA in his past seven starts. In the Tribe?s loss to Seattle this week, he pitched better ? he had eight strikeouts in 52/3 innings ? but twice gave up the lead by allowing home runs.
?Every time I fall behind in the count and try to throw a fastball in there, they?re hacking really hard and taking me out of the park,? said Jimenez, who has allowed a career-high 23 homers this season. That?s significant because he used to pitch in altitude in Colorado but never allowed more than 13 homers in a season.
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NFBuck;2199226; said:
Shapiro's reputation was built nearly a decade ago. He has done nothing in the last 6-7 years to warrant any kind of job security. And Antonetti? He's been a disaster thus far.
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Whether Shapiro and Antonetti have been successful really depends upon how you measure that success, doesn't it? If the yardstick is Division, AL or World Series titles then they are certainly failures.

But, if that yardstick is exchanged for a calculator and checkbook, then it's quite possible that they have continually made money for the Dolans. Forbes and other sources have regularly claimed that the Cleveland Indians franchise operates in the black. Dolans have denied that, but Forbes has never retracted its stories and they continue to make the claim.

As the sales of other franchises in recent years have shown, the real value for MLB clubs today is in the cable networks they control. Baseball and the fluff programing created around it (golf shows, baseball and other sport talk shows, high school sports, etc.) is cheap programing. And, unlike some teams, the Indians really don't benefit much from their deal with STO because the Tribe has no ownership interest in STO: it's owned by Channel 3's owners and....yep.... the Dolans.

BTW, ever notice the Time-Warner Bleachers at Progressive Field? Ever notice that the Tribe never announced how much (if anything?) Time-Warner paid for that deal. But, I wonder whether that deal had any relationship to STO's deal to be carried on Time-Warner? Similarly, ever notice that Channel 3 gets to provide the scoreboard news and weather updates during games....and "sponsor" the weather seminars at the park for school kids and such? Does the Tribe really get much benefit from this stuff?

So, IF the Dolans want to reduce their financial risk and continue to milk the cash cow of MLB, then Shapiro and Antonetti might be exactly the ones they want running the club. They squeeze the nickles and pennies (and fans), churn the roster with low cost options and, once and a while, get lucky with a trade (like Choo or Chris Perez) and minor free agent signing (like Blake) so that the team competes enough to keep the minimum needed fan base interested.

Sadly, if most of the above is correct, there's really not a lot of hope of seeing another sell out streak or World Series championship parade in Cleveland anytime soon....:(
 
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Zippercat;2199319; said:
Whether Shapiro and Antonetti have been successful really depends upon how you measure that success, doesn't it? If the yardstick is Division, AL or World Series titles then they are certainly failures.

But, if that yardstick is exchanged for a calculator and checkbook, then it's quite possible that they have continually made money for the Dolans. Forbes and other sources have regularly claimed that the Cleveland Indians franchise operates in the black. Dolans have denied that, but Forbes has never retracted its stories and they continue to make the claim.

As the sales of other franchises in recent years have shown, the real value for MLB clubs today is in the cable networks they control. Baseball and the fluff programing created around it (golf shows, baseball and other sport talk shows, high school sports, etc.) is cheap programing. And, unlike some teams, the Indians really don't benefit much from their deal with STO because the Tribe has no ownership interest in STO: it's owned by Channel 3's owners and....yep.... the Dolans.

BTW, ever notice the Time-Warner Bleachers at Progressive Field? Ever notice that the Tribe never announced how much (if anything?) Time-Warner paid for that deal. But, I wonder whether that deal had any relationship to STO's deal to be carried on Time-Warner? Similarly, ever notice that Channel 3 gets to provide the scoreboard news and weather updates during games....and "sponsor" the weather seminars at the park for school kids and such? Does the Tribe really get much benefit from this stuff?

So, IF the Dolans want to reduce their financial risk and continue to milk the cash cow of MLB, then Shapiro and Antonetti might be exactly the ones they want running the club. They squeeze the nickles and pennies (and fans), churn the roster with low cost options and, once and a while, get lucky with a trade (like Choo or Chris Perez) and minor free agent signing (like Blake) so that the team competes enough to keep the minimum needed fan base interested.

Sadly, if most of the above is correct, there's really not a lot of hope of seeing another sell out streak or World Series championship parade in Cleveland anytime soon....:(
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Nicely put together but if they do not start to win in the next couple years, sponsorships and fan base will really start to dry up.
 
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Zippercat;2199319; said:
Whether Shapiro and Antonetti have been successful really depends upon how you measure that success, doesn't it? If the yardstick is Division, AL or World Series titles then they are certainly failures.
Click to expand...

As a fan, I measure it strictly in a baseball sense. In that sense, they're utter failures. I'd safely assume 95% of fellow Tribe fans feel the same way. It's shown by the empty seats at each game. I can honestly say, if I still lived in NE Ohio, I would not pay my hard earned dollars to watch a shitty product. If they want people to come to the games, and all of the revenue generated from renewed fan support, moves need to be made. If they're not, we're looking at a long term slump like we had when I was growing up, and with that, a ton of empty seats and zero fan interest. That's what they deserve. Cleveland fans will not support shitty baseball. That's a proven fact. We're battered enough by the Browns.

I know it won't happen, but the best thing for the franchise would be for the Dolans to sell the team to an energetic owner like the Cavs, and the Browns now seem to have. The Dolans don't give two shits about the Indians. They're property. Not a baseball team.
 
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Will we ever win another game? this is embarrassing.. sucking in April is still tolerable... but sucking in Aug... somebody needs to be sacrificed to the baseball gods...

They'd need over 100 fat Slump Buster girls... and they still would suck
 
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