Cleveland Indians (official 2012 season)

[Zippercat]

The Dolan's aren't going to pay two mgrs. Not sure when his contract is up, but he'll be here as long as he's under contract.

He's got one year left on his deal. Wedgie had one year left when he got canned too.

They have to do something to save whatever is left of the fanbase. Acta makes less than any pitcher or LF that's going to be on the market this winter. Besides, naming Sandy Alomar the interim Manager will tie in with that stupid What If crap.

 

[NFBuck]

He's got one year left on his deal. Wedgie had one year left when he got canned too.

They have to do something to save whatever is left of the fanbase. Acta makes less than any pitcher or LF that's going to be on the market this winter. Besides, naming Sandy Alomar the interim Manager will tie in with that stupid What If crap.

There's about 8 of us, and I'm rapidly losing interest. This franchise is in the worst shape it's been since the early-90's, which is unreal considering what they've traded off since 2008. In fact, it's nearly incomprehensible that they did not receive or develop one star player out of those trades. Brantley is solid, but a complimentary piece. Masterson...who the hell knows what you're getting with him. We have almost nothing to show for Cliff Lee, but a backup C, and an injured SP. Don't even get me started on the Ubald-O trade. That was stupid on an unbelievable level.

Like I said a few pages back, unless some of the guys in the low minors blow up big time, this team is set up to fall back into a 60's-80's style malaise.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

There's about 8 of us, and I'm rapidly losing interest. This franchise is in the worst shape it's been since the early-90's, which is unreal considering what they've traded off since 2008. In fact, it's nearly incomprehensible that they did not receive or develop one star player out of those trades. Brantley is solid, but a complimentary piece. Masterson...who the hell knows what you're getting with him. We have almost nothing to show for Cliff Lee, but a backup C, and an injured SP. Don't even get me started on the Ubald-O trade. That was stupid on an unbelievable level.

Like I said a few pages back, unless some of the guys in the low minors blow up big time, this team is set up to fall back into a 60's-80's style malaise.

Let's not forget trading Brandon Phillips - one of the best players in the game today - for pitcher Jeff Stevens (who?) back in 2006.

And how about Coco Crisp for Andy Marte', also in 2006. Crisp hasn't exactly been an all star (although he played like one today), but he has at least been a functional player for the past seven seasons, while Marte' was a complete bust. When they traded Crisp, he was coming off of a season where he hit .300, 16 home runs, 42 doubles, 69 RBI's, and 15 steals ... and the Tribe got nothing for him.

So what do the Indians have to show for Sabathia, Lee, Victor Martinez, Phillips, and Crisp? A #3 starter (Masterson), a competent outfielder (Brantley), and back-up catcher (Marson), and a bunch of triple-A junk that has never done anything at the major league level (Hagadone, Carrasco, Donald, Laporta).

What's the last good trade that this team has made? Eduardo Perez for Asdrubel Cabrera in 2006?

This front office has a horrible history of both trading and drafting, and they simply have to go ... and take Acta with them.

 

[NFBuck]

Well, they did flip Broussard for Choo. But Choo will soon be allowed to walk in FA or jettisoned for more garbage. At this point, I have < zero faith in this FO to build a competitor.

Also, remember this FO [censored]ed away $5M this season on a turd who can't wipe his ass without injuring his shoulder. Shapiro made some excellent moves early in his tenure, but that was a decade ago. Now, we have Antonetti...who looks like a fucking retard.

 

[y0yoyoin]

i went to a clippers game last week...the octomoms 8 children have a better future then this team

 

[NFBuck]

Not to continue harping on it, but the stupidity of the Ubald-O trade [censored]es me off to no end. You have a talent-deficient team in a tailspin (i'm talking '11, obviously), so you trade the top pitching prospect you've had in a long time for a struggling former ace. Then, when the team (predictably) fails to turn around, you still make no real effort to improve in the offseason. Surprise! The team remains shitty, with no end to the baseball diarrhea in sight. It's [censored]ing maddening.

 

[buckeyemania11]

Not to continue harping on it, but the stupidity of the Ubald-O trade [censored]es me off to no end. You have a talent-deficient team in a tailspin (i'm talking '11, obviously), so you trade the top pitching prospect you've had in a long time for a struggling former ace. Then, when the team (predictably) fails to turn around, you still make no real effort to improve in the offseason. Surprise! The team remains [Mark May]ty, with no end to the baseball diarrhea in sight. It's [censored]ing maddening.

But they got LARS ANDERSON! they did not stand still at the deadline!

 

[tsteele316]

Not to continue harping on it, but the stupidity of the Ubald-O trade [censored]es me off to no end. You have a talent-deficient team in a tailspin (i'm talking '11, obviously), so you trade the top pitching prospect you've had in a long time for a struggling former ace. Then, when the team (predictably) fails to turn around, you still make no real effort to improve in the offseason. Surprise! The team remains shitty, with no end to the baseball diarrhea in sight. It's [censored]ing maddening.

both guys they traded are doing shitty. so, instead of bitching about cleveland trading proven players for minor league potential, you can now bitch about the opposite. so, at least the front office has given you something new to complain about.

the bigger underlying issue for the indians the last 5 years has been the inability of the front office to draft well. when you look at cleveland's starting lineup, or at least who would have been their starting lineup on paper had everything went according to plan, how many were drafted by this team? kipnis?

but bitching about trades in baseball is really a dumb argument. all the guys everyone bitched about cleveland not getting in the cliff lee trade, guys like drabek, have also been total shit shows. guys like andy marte were thought to be locks to be good players.

teams like cleveland have to continue making such deals and hope they get more trades like kearnes for mcallister or brousard/perez, for choo/ascab, than trades like the cliff lee deal. if this team could draft worth a damn, then there wouldn't be such abortions like the LF spot this year, or brent lillibridge in the majors.

 

[buckeyemania11]

both guys they traded are doing [Mark May]ty. so, instead of bitching about cleveland trading proven players for minor league potential, you can now bitch about the opposite. so, at least the front office has given you something new to complain about.

the bigger underlying issue for the indians the last 5 years has been the inability of the front office to draft well. when you look at cleveland's starting lineup, or at least who would have been their starting lineup on paper had everything went according to plan, how many were drafted by this team? kipnis?

but bitching about trades in baseball is really a dumb argument. all the guys everyone bitched about cleveland not getting in the cliff lee trade, guys like drabek, have also been total [Mark May] shows. guys like andy marte were thought to be locks to be good players.

teams like cleveland have to continue making such deals and hope they get more trades like kearnes for mcallister or brousard/perez, for choo/ascab, than trades like the cliff lee deal. if this team could draft worth a damn, then there wouldn't be such abortions like the LF spot this year, or brent lillibridge in the majors.

You should be able to get more than a decent OFer and a backup catcher for 2 cy young pitchers.....there is no way to spin those 2 trades as anything other than awful

 

[Bucklion]

Shitty drafts and shitty trades, and now they are stuck in no man's land, which is the real issue for the next 15 years. At least. I mean the Royals have the same record right now, and they have sucked for a while, but they have a bevy of good young kids that they have developed and/or traded for that form a very solid nucleus going forward, at least in the lineup. They need better pitching, obviously, but if they can get 2 solid starters going, they can go somewhere. This team has nothing. No prospects, no trade bait, no established "stars", no nothing. Right now they are a 60-75 win team until 2020 unless something dramatic changes. Maybe Lindor will be a start. Maybe.

 

[AKAK]

Shitty drafts and shitty trades, and now they are stuck in no man's land, which is the real issue for the next 15 years. At least. I mean the Royals have the same record right now, and they have sucked for a while, but they have a bevy of good young kids that they have developed and/or traded for that form a very solid nucleus going forward, at least in the lineup. They need better pitching, obviously, but if they can get 2 solid starters going, they can go somewhere. This team has nothing. No prospects, no trade bait, no established "stars", no nothing. Right now they are a 60-75 win team until 2020 unless something dramatic changes. Maybe Lindor will be a start. Maybe.

Well, they do have 20 million more dollars or so... see, what you've forgotten are the shitty contracts when they do spend money.


To be fair, the Indians do have some good pieces... problem is that... yeah, there's no organizational balance, for lack of a better term. Last year, with the number of injuries is one thing, but, to go so long with no option whatsoever in Left is ridiculous. On the other hand, we seem to have 74 options at 3rd that are all about the same and serviceable, and none are name Andy Marte, at least. But, how the fuck do you not have an extra corner outfielder who can hit at least .240? I'll leave 1B to everyone else to bitch about but, that was a combination of first Pronk - essentially he tied the 1B money up into DH, thank you very much, and LaPorta, who of course should have been at least serviceable. Seriously, let Chis play there if he can't defend at 3rd and see what happens. So, instead of nothing, we have Asdrubal, Smooth and Kipnis, and a bunch of .260 hitting 3B's. (and even as shitty as Smooth is sometimes, at least he's shitty at catcher... which, is mostly normal)

 

[LitlBuck]

I blame all of this mess on Shapiro and Antoinetti. Yeah, they have brought in a couple good players over the past 10 years but they really have not done anything when it comes to building the farm system with draft picks. The teams of the 90s were built by Hart not by Shapiro. He really needs to go along with Ant.... They probably can take Acta with them but I do not know if I want Sandy as a new manager. I would like to see someone with a little fire in their belly take over this mess. At least then when they lose, it might be entertaining.

 

[NFBuck]

both guys they traded are doing [Mark May]ty. so, instead of bitching about cleveland trading proven players for minor league potential, you can now bitch about the opposite. so, at least the front office has given you something new to complain about.

Doesn't change the fact it was a stupid trade. Spin it any way you like. They dealt their top pitching prospect, who everybody was drooling over 15 months ago, for a headcase former ace, who still sucks balls. Then, did nothing to improve an already shitty team in the offseason. If you're going to make a trade like that, you don't just sit on your ass. It was stupid because it was pointless. Not because of how anybody involved is performing (or not performing).

 

[AKAK]

They probably can take Acta with them but I do not know if I want Sandy as a new manager. I would like to see someone with a little fire in their belly take over this mess. At least then when they lose, it might be entertaining.

Well, just get Robbie as the bench coach or something... he's nuts.

 

[Bucklion]

Well, they do have 20 million more dollars or so... see, what you've forgotten are the [Mark May]ty contracts when they do spend money.


To be fair, the Indians do have some good pieces... problem is that... yeah, there's no organizational balance, for lack of a better term. Last year, with the number of injuries is one thing, but, to go so long with no option whatsoever in Left is ridiculous. On the other hand, we seem to have 74 options at 3rd that are all about the same and serviceable, and none are name Andy Marte, at least. But, how the [censored] do you not have an extra corner outfielder who can hit at least .240? I'll leave 1B to everyone else to bitch about but, that was a combination of first Pronk - essentially he tied the 1B money up into DH, thank you very much, and LaPorta, who of course should have been at least serviceable. Seriously, let Chis play there if he can't defend at 3rd and see what happens. So, instead of nothing, we have Asdrubal, Smooth and Kipnis, and a bunch of .260 hitting 3B's. (and even as [Mark May]ty as Smooth is sometimes, at least he's [Mark May]ty at catcher... which, is mostly normal)

And Brantley...

The problem is those 4 guys are just fine...for your 3-6th best players. Unfortunately they are 1-4 on this team, with a drop-off down Mount Kilimanjaro after that, with guys like fucking Lillibridge actually playing most every day. Seriously, this team has role players for stars and 1-2x a week utility guys as role players. If there is talent anywhere, it is in A, maybe Double A, because all the guys at AAA they say "aren't prospects anymore", whatever the fuck that means. But even more troubling is the state of the SP, which has gone from an embarrassment of riches to just being an embarrassment. They went from having 8-9 guys they thought could start to having 6-7 armadillo turds and a kid or 2 who might pan out as #3 or #4 guys in a few years. Seriously Jeff Karstens could be the fucking ace on this team. McAllister might pan out and Gomez could still conceivably get it figured out. Kluber it's hard to say, but he isn't exactly Strasburg out there. After that, we have nothing we can depend on. Masterson is a 9-12 pitcher who will shut down 5-6 lineups at random times during a season and lay a pumpkin fart in most of the rest of his starts. Ubaldo is a disaster. The rest of the guys have either been cut, will be cut, or should never have been signed in the first place.