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Cleveland Indians (2013 Season)

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Bucklion;2352269; said:
Likely an exhibition start for potential trade partners. I will say this...this team needs help badly. The starters have gone 6 or more a grand total of 46 times...take out the number of Masterson starts, and that is a world of shit. Still, if they get a half year rental like Garza for a promising pitcher like Salazar, they will be setting themselves up for failure forever. They aren't going to beat Detroit for the division, and there are 3-4 teams ahead of them in the WC. The other option is a guy under contract like Gallardo, but he has been so damn bad it will be Ubaldo V2.0. I would rather see them get some cheaper bullpen help and see what they can do. Please please PLEASE do not mortgage the entire future of Lindor, Naquin, or Salazar for a glorified bum like Gallardo or a headcase like Garza. PLEASE.
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i doubt you'll see cleveland make any drastic trades for half year rentals. but, it's a new manager, and different roster, with the same whack a mole problems cleveland always has. they manage to dumpster dive a respectable starter in kazmir and the bullpen turns to shit, most specifically pestano post injury. you get mcallister developing into a decent MOR starter and he gets hurt. Cabrera has been hurt and inconsistent when kipnis finally starts having a breakout year.

really if cleveland wants to be a legit contender next season, they need to do two things: find a reliable bullpen arm, and find a #2 starter. i would say they need to get a real cleanup hitter so swisher and santana could drop in the batting order, but that's way too much for dolan to pay out in one year.

but i'd say there are surprisingly enough positives thus far to make the case that cleveland is a few guys away from really contending. kipnis is obvious. chisenhall has been what they expected finally after his recall. mcallister and kluber have shown to be decent middle to back of the rotation starters.
 
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tsteele316;2352289; said:
i would say they need to get a real cleanup hitter so swisher and santana could drop in the batting order, but that's way too much for dolan to pay out in one year.
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I think this is really key... but, yeah, cost prohibitive.

This could be a REALLY good line-up if they had that strike-fear-in-the-soul of the opposing pitching staff (and managers) guy in the middle of the order, and to some degree it need not even be a premier guy, just a bit more consistent than Reynolds, more pop than Swisher. That makes up for a lot of sins, now, they need more bullpen, sure, but, the next guy's arm could fall off anytime, they're relievers, shit happens. But if this offense was just consistent, it would make up for a lot of sins. When they're clicking we know what they can do, just a question of not having the no-one-showed-up-and we-don't-have-THE-GUY in the middle there.
 
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AKAK;2352299; said:
I think this is really key... but, yeah, cost prohibitive.

This could be a REALLY good line-up if they had that strike-fear-in-the-soul of the opposing pitching staff (and managers) guy in the middle of the order, and to some degree it need not even be a premier guy, just a bit more consistent than Reynolds, more pop than Swisher. That makes up for a lot of sins, now, they need more bullpen, sure, but, the next guy's arm could fall off anytime, they're relievers, [Mark May] happens. But if this offense was just consistent, it would make up for a lot of sins. When they're clicking we know what they can do, just a question of not having the no-one-showed-up-and we-don't-have-THE-GUY in the middle there.
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Look at Los Angeles/Anaheim/San Jose/WTFE though...they signed Hamilton and he's been a goat turd, and Pujols is chronically hurt now. I certainly see what y'all are saying, but I guess I just think that the hitter can get hurt, or suck, or both, just as much as the pitcher can, and you could probably get a decent #2 and a 7th inning guy for the price of one slugger. I do agree they are close, but also that the needs are glaring.
 
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tsteele316;2352289; said:
i doubt you'll see cleveland make any drastic trades for half year rentals. but, it's a new manager, and different roster, with the same whack a mole problems cleveland always has. they manage to dumpster dive a respectable starter in kazmir and the bullpen turns to [Mark May], most specifically pestano post injury. you get mcallister developing into a decent MOR starter and he gets hurt. Cabrera has been hurt and inconsistent when kipnis finally starts having a breakout year.

really if cleveland wants to be a legit contender next season, they need to do two things: find a reliable bullpen arm, and find a #2 starter. i would say they need to get a real cleanup hitter so swisher and santana could drop in the batting order, but that's way too much for dolan to pay out in one year.

but i'd say there are surprisingly enough positives thus far to make the case that cleveland is a few guys away from really contending. kipnis is obvious. chisenhall has been what they expected finally after his recall. mcallister and kluber have shown to be decent middle to back of the rotation starters.
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In 2 years (if Lindor is ready and Salazar or Bauer figure it out) they could have one hell of a nucleus if they don't fuck it up, that's for sure.
 
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LitlBuck;2352317; said:
They still might have a shot at the AL Central this year if the right 4-5 Tigers get suspended for substance abuse.
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I assume you're talking about suspensions linked to the Florida aging clinic? Any suspensions handed down this far into the season from that are not very likely to become effective this season. Under the collective bargaining agreement the players will have the right to appeal. These won't be suspensions based on failing PED tests so the accelerated appeal process won't apply. If there are a large number of suspensions, it also would not be surprising to see the players' association file litigation too.
 
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Hoynes still seems to be high on this club and thinks they will make a move. He says Lindor is off the table, but Naquin and Salazar are not. He mentioned Garza and Gallardo, but also said they might grab a bat instead or hit the bullpen...hard to say, but I don't think they'll stand pat.
 
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Bucklion;2352304; said:
Look at Los Angeles/Anaheim/San Jose/WTFE though...they signed Hamilton and he's been a goat turd, and Pujols is chronically hurt now. I certainly see what y'all are saying, but I guess I just think that the hitter can get hurt, or suck, or both, just as much as the pitcher can, and you could probably get a decent #2 and a 7th inning guy for the price of one slugger. I do agree they are close, but also that the needs are glaring.
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I suppose I mean a little more of a Sabermetric Slugger, I don't know... if Swisher hit .320 and 70 doubles a year, he'd be fine... I'm specifically not talking about guys like Hamilton and Pujols, though... and guys get hurt, I mean, Pujols was a stupid deal for them but Hamilton should have worked out better.

At any rate, I'll take my health chances on a hitter over any proven 7th inning bullpen guy every day of the week, once 7 inning bullpen guys are proven, if they're still only 7th inning guys, they probalby have too many miles on them.

I think "decent #2's" are pricier than that, too... I mean, Decent #2's are most teams #1. There really is no shame in having a #1 and 4 #3's. That should probably be the goal. So I suppose what I'm saying is I'd rather have a "decent #2 clean-up hitter"
 
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AKAK;2352385; said:
I suppose I mean a little more of a Sabermetric Slugger, I don't know... if Swisher hit .320 and 70 doubles a year, he'd be fine... I'm specifically not talking about guys like Hamilton and Pujols, though... and guys get hurt, I mean, Pujols was a stupid deal for them but Hamilton should have worked out better.

At any rate, I'll take my health chances on a hitter over any proven 7th inning bullpen guy every day of the week, once 7 inning bullpen guys are proven, if they're still only 7th inning guys, they probalby have too many miles on them.

I think "decent #2's" are pricier than that, too... I mean, Decent #2's are most teams #1. There really is no shame in having a #1 and 4 #3's. That should probably be the goal. So I suppose what I'm saying is I'd rather have a "decent #2 clean-up hitter"
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I see your point, but how many of those guys are there? I would argue there are more starting pitchers that are in the low #1-mid#3 range than there are cleanup hitters that can hit .285 with 30 homers, 50 doubles, and drive in 100 runs. What type of player are we talking about? Soriano? JJ Hardy? Cuddyer? Do those names excite you? Otherwise you make a leap into the elite, and I don't think they'll spend for that, or that those guys are even available.

Right now the number of guys with at least 15 homers, 15 doubles, 40 RBI and an average above .250 is, by my calculations, 23. Most of those play on contenders already. We just aren't going to be able to pull a Paul Goldschmidt or an Adam Jones. They just aren't out there.
 
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