Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

[stowfan]

Worth checking out, I found this on NBA.com. One of their writers ranked all the players at various positions. He also added commentary including feedback from some NBA scouts.

http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_aldridge/big-board-point-guards/index.html

 

[tsteele316]

Mediocre production? Have you looked at the numbers for these guys?

Lebron James ain't gonna be there at #4. Who are you taking over Barnes? Yeah, let's pass on the guy that dropped 17 a night for a stacked Carolina team (including dropping 40 on Clemson) for the salmonella-raw post player that shoots 40% from the block and 26% from the free throw line? For a UConn team that couldn't get out of the 1st round.

Don't just make shit up for your point. Bring some facts and an alternative.

so, that whole point about nba teams projecting finished product talent over simplistic stats in college kind of went over your head I take it? it appears so. but by all means, please continue pimping the guy that is physically average but has a higher floor because you want to ignore the point above.

and i'll repeat this again, since i said it pages ago, that if drummond shows well enough in workouts, interviews, and at the combine that the cavs would have no problem with him at #4, then he will be gone before the cavs pick anyway.

 

[OH10]

so, that whole point about nba teams projecting finished product talent over simplistic stats in college kind of went over your head I take it? it appears so. but by all means, please continue pimping the guy that is physically average but has a higher floor because you want to ignore the point above.

and i'll repeat this again, since i said it pages ago, that if drummond shows well enough in workouts, interviews, and at the combine that the cavs would have no problem with him at #4, then he will be gone before the cavs pick anyway.

Because NBA teams have been so good at projecting finished product, especially when it comes to big men. /sarcasm font

And I was responding directly to your assertion that Barnes had mediocre production, which was based on nothing. So I gave you numbers about his production. Don't get mad about that and claim they're irrelevant now.

The key to Barnes is Kyrie Irving. As indicated in stowfan's link above:

Barnes' skill is catching and shooting. He's a smooth perimeter talent, and at 6-foot-8 he's more than big enough to get his shot off against most pro threes. A team with a low-post option or a penetrating point guard could have a field day rotating the ball out to Barnes on the weakside.

Well [Mark May] if that just doesn't fit the [censored]ing bill.

By downplaying Barnes, you act as if there's some other type of talent in this draft to build around that is demonstrably better. Plenty of scouts and couch scouts have overrated NCAA performances in the past. I think I'll based my opinion of Barnes on his production when he had a real point guard on the floor with him and not some walk on faking the position as best he can.

 

[stowfan]

I think Barnes draft stock took a major hit, the last game he played. Kansas as we know, has a couple of NBA sized players on their front line, and Barnes did not respond well. He reminds me of the coming of Antwan Jamison.


http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=320850153

 

[tsteele316]

Because NBA teams have been so good at projecting finished product, especially when it comes to big men. /sarcasm font

And I was responding directly to your assertion that Barnes had mediocre production, which was based on nothing. So I gave you numbers about his production. Don't get mad about that and claim they're irrelevant now.

The key to Barnes is Kyrie Irving. As indicated in stowfan's link above:



Well [Mark May] if that just doesn't fit the [censored]ing bill.

By downplaying Barnes, you act as if there's some other type of talent in this draft to build around that is demonstrably better. Plenty of scouts and couch scouts have overrated NCAA performances in the past. I think I'll based my opinion of Barnes on his production when he had a real point guard on the floor with him and not some walk on faking the position as best he can.

as opposed to all the bust proof SF's that have littered the nba draft over the years? big men busting is a poor argument and you know it.

as to limiting your assessment of barnes to when he had an nba caliber pg with him on the court, you are being rather contradictory as uconn's pg's were ball hogging dumpster fires this year. but that somehow escapes your assessment.

so again, feel free to latch on to the supposed high floor mediocrely talented player if it makes you feel better.

 

[TDBUCK856]

I think Barnes draft stock took a major hit, the last game he played. Kansas as we know, has a couple of NBA sized players on their front line, and Barnes did not respond well. He reminds me of the coming of Antwan Jamison.


http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=320850153

Not that I want Barnes or anything, but with the high number of busts in the draft I would think a top 10 pick that resulted in Jamison-esque player would be pretty successfull. If they can swing that trade, I am hoping for a combo of either beal/lamb and then Zeller/Leonard

 

[OH10]

as opposed to all the bust proof SF's that have littered the nba draft over the years? big men busting is a poor argument and you know it.

I don't know it. Please enlighten me with something more than conclusory statements.

In the meantime, I'll offer you Michael Olowakandi, Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, Adonal Foyle, Tony Battie, Desagna Diop, Shawn Bradley, and Darko Milicic. (I refuse to mention Greg Oden as a bust simply because his career problems are, in my opinion, solely attributable to his health - but at least he contributed immensely in his one year of college)

as to limiting your assessment of barnes to when he had an nba caliber pg with him on the court, you are being rather contradictory as uconn's pg's were ball hogging dumpster fires this year. but that somehow escapes your assessment.

You know, I'm sure it was the point guard's fault that Drummond shot under 30% from the free throw line. And, quite frankly, if I were a UConn point guard, I probably wouldn't pass the ball to a guy that shoots worse than my 8-year-old nephew.

Please tell me (because I've been dying to find out) what talent Andre Drummond has besides the fact that he's 6'10" and 270 lbs.

so again, feel free to latch on to the supposed high floor mediocrely talented player if it makes you feel better.

I will. And it does. Thanks.

 

[OH10]

I think Barnes draft stock took a major hit, the last game he played. Kansas as we know, has a couple of NBA sized players on their front line, and Barnes did not respond well. He reminds me of the coming of Antwan Jamison.


http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=320850153

Except he won't be asked to defend the 4 position and he can actually handle the ball a little. But, other than that, yeah, I'd love to get a guy who can put up Jamison numbers for as long as he did.

 

[Brutus1]

I'd rather make the trade you talked about with Portland. Then I'd draft
Lamb at #6 and Terrence Ross at #11.

If Barnes was there at #6, I'd take him, then take Lamb at #11.

That would be sweet to pick up two starters. That would let them possibly take a chance on someone with the two second rounders. Maybe Doron Lamb, then Kyle O'Quinn. They're both projected to be available. D. Lamb would be a very nick pickup at #33. This team would automatically add three shooters to a team desperate for shooting. I think OQ's rebounding and shot blocking alone would make him worth the 34th pick.

 

[exhawg]

So to make this as confusing as possible if the Cavs traded with the Blazer and the first 5 picks went Davis, MKG, Robinson, Beal, and Barnes do you go with Drummond at 6 or still look for a wing?

 

[Brutus1]

Except he won't be asked to defend the 4 position and he can actually handle the ball a little. But, other than that, yeah, I'd love to get a guy who can put up Jamison numbers for as long as he did.

Without that ugly-ass shot of his.

 

[OH10]

So to make this as confusing as possible if the Cavs traded with the Blazer and the first 5 picks went Davis, MKG, Robinson, Beal, and Barnes do you go with Drummond at 6 or still look for a wing?

Lamb.

If you're looking for a big man in this draft at #11, I'm actually looking at a guy like Meyers Leonard. He has a solid offensive game, runs the floor well, and plays with a little bit of a mean streak. He really needs to put some meat on though, but I think he can be a very productive big man.

EDIT: I also like Marquise Teague in the 20s. I think he's really undervalued in this draft as a back-up point guard. He has similar floor speed to Ty Lawson and I feel like the other players on the Kentucky team really overshadowed his ability. He needs to shoot a little better from the outside, but he'd be a solid back-up to Kyrie for the next 5 years and longer if we could afford him. And if he plays better than a backup, he'd be great trade bait.

 

[tsteele316]

I don't know it. Please enlighten me with something more than conclusory statements.

In the meantime, I'll offer you Michael Olowakandi, Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, Adonal Foyle, Tony Battie, Desagna Diop, Shawn Bradley, and Darko Milicic. (I refuse to mention Greg Oden as a bust simply because his career problems are, in my opinion, solely attributable to his health - but at least he contributed immensely in his one year of college)



You know, I'm sure it was the point guard's fault that Drummond shot under 30% from the free throw line. And, quite frankly, if I were a UConn point guard, I probably wouldn't pass the ball to a guy that shoots worse than my 8-year-old nephew.

Please tell me (because I've been dying to find out) what talent Andre Drummond has besides the fact that he's 6'10" and 270 lbs.



I will. And it does. Thanks.

adam morrison, shaun livingston, marvin williams, mike dunleavy, Yi, Brandon Wright, ect... would all like to have a word with your list above.

so, bad pg play is only an excuse for barnes. got it.

i'll explain to you how an athletic freak that plays a premium nba position has discernible talent when you enlighten me as to how a pedestrian athlete that doesn't do anything exceptionally well in college ball will suddenly flourish against real athletes in the nba.

 

[Brutus1]

So to make this as confusing as possible if the Cavs traded with the Blazer and the first 5 picks went Davis, MKG, Robinson, Beal, and Barnes do you go with Drummond at 6 or still look for a wing?

If Drummond is still there at #6, then there must be a reason (other than OH10 is drafting for the Cavs ). Point being, if he falls that far, then I'm not taking a chance on him. I'm really believing thais Barnes/Drummond debate won't matter because Drummond will be gone by #4. Barnes may be also.

If the first 5 went like that, I'm taking wings with the two pick. I want shooters th take advantage of a pg like Irving.

 

[Brutus1]

Lamb.

If you're looking for a big man in this draft at #11, I'm actually looking at a guy like Meyers Leonard. He has a solid offensive game, runs the floor well, and plays with a little bit of a mean streak. He really needs to put some meat on though, but I think he can be a very productive big man.

EDIT: I also like Marquise Teague in the 20s. I think he's really undervalued in this draft as a back-up point guard. He has similar floor speed to Ty Lawson and I feel like the other players on the Kentucky team really overshadowed his ability. He needs to shoot a little better from the outside, but he'd be a solid back-up to Kyrie for the next 5 years and longer if we could afford him. And if he plays better than a backup, he'd be great trade bait.

I like Teague, too, but I'm surely not drafting a guaranteed backup with the 24th pick. Nothing against his ability, but they can find a backup pg in the second round that won't mind sitting as the top pg in the league runs the show.