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Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

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If the Bobcats are going to draft Robinson the Cavs can't lose. They'll either get Beal or MKG. If they do end up with MKG it would be good for Boobie since they will need a shooter on the floor with Irving and MKG.
 
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they would have a contingent deal in place... and only if TRob is still there would they want to move forward.. that way Bobcats would have a guarantee.. to do it in advance, there are no guarantees they still get TRob...

But I admit, with Gordon in play.. they would be in a jam to select Beal and no deal to move him

When exhawg (the real Cavs GM) calls me... I'm gonna tell him my plan
 
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NJ-Buckeye;2171489; said:
they would have a contingent deal in place... and only if TRob is still there would they want to move forward.. that way Bobcats would have a guarantee.. to do it in advance, there are no guarantees they still get TRob...

But I admit, with Gordon in play.. they would be in a jam to select Beal and no deal to move him

When exhawg (the real Cavs GM) calls me... I'm gonna tell him my plan
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Luckily that isn't the case or we might have ended up with Derek Williams and Brandon Knight last year instead of the two best rookies in the class. :p
I'm looking for more magic from Grant tomorrow.
 
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hopefully smoke...cant imagine drafting someone we didnt even work out...let alone a player who didnt even start for Syracuse

Syracuse's Dion Waiters drawing interest from Cavaliers at No. 4 in NBA draft

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The Cleveland Cavaliers' intrigue with selecting Syracuse guard Dion Waiters with the fourth overall pick in Thursday?s NBA draft has gathered significant momentum, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. The Cavaliers haven?t been able to get Waiters to visit Cleveland for a workout and meeting with officials, but it hasn?t extinguished management?s ever-evolving fascination with choosing Waiters at No. 4 ? especially if the Cavaliers are unable to secure Florida guard Bradley Beal.
Cleveland has intensified its background checks on Waiters, and sources in direct contact with Cavs officials believe Waiters would be the franchise's choice over Kansas? Thomas Robinson should the Charlotte Bobcats select Michael Kidd-Gilchrist at No. 2, and the Washington Wizards take Beal at No. 3.
Because Waiters, a 6-foot-5 combo guard, had a promise later in the lottery, he stopped making visits to teams highest in the lottery. Nevertheless, Cleveland still believes it has strong intelligence on Waiters, an explosive scoring guard the Cavs can pair with Rookie of the Year Kyrie Irving. Cleveland still has a strong desire to move to No. 2 to get Beal, but has resisted Charlotte?s attempts to attach Tyrus Thomas to a trade. Thomas has three years and $26 million left on his contract and has become unproductive and largely uncaring as a pro. As one league source connected to the talks said, "The rest of the deal would have to be very strong for [the Cavs] to take on [Thomas]."
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You have GOT to be kidding me with Waiters. His ceiling would be Vinnie Johnson. At best, he has the potential to be a really good 6th man, provding scoring punch with your best player getting some rest. At worst he's out of the league in 3 years.

I've been spending the last 24 hours selling myself on MKG despite his shot. He's the perimeter version of Anderson Varejao with the potential to be so much more and you can never have too many of those guys.
 
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what's being said is that waiters is in the discussion only if mkg and beal go 2 and 3.

waiters could go as high as 5, but won't get past golden state at #7 otherwise, so, it's not an overly surprising reach.

go read hollinger's wing analysis through his metrics and see why teams like this kid.
 
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tsteele316;2171847; said:
what's being said is that waiters is in the discussion only if mkg and beal go 2 and 3.

waiters could go as high as 5, but won't get past golden state at #7 otherwise, so, it's not an overly surprising reach.

go read hollinger's wing analysis through his metrics and see why teams like this kid.
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Well, I would first have to fork over money to espn.com for insider access. But then I'd have to also believe that Hollinger's metrics are infallible, and that Waiters off-the-bench production at Syracuse would translate to a top 4 pick in the NBA draft. Then I would have to sell myself on the idea that NBA GMs aren't glorified retards most of the time, when they actually are.

I watched Waiters probably more this year than Hollinger. He's a 6th man that you're dreaming of becoming James Harden - but doesn't have nearly the production to back it up.
 
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OH10;2171961; said:
Well, I would first have to fork over money to espn.com for insider access. But then I'd have to also believe that Hollinger's metrics are infallible, and that Waiters off-the-bench production at Syracuse would translate to a top 4 pick in the NBA draft. Then I would have to sell myself on the idea that NBA GMs aren't glorified retards most of the time, when they actually are.

I watched Waiters probably more this year than Hollinger. He's a 6th man that you're dreaming of becoming James Harden - but doesn't have nearly the production to back it up.
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People have reported that the Cavs front office is bigtime into metrics and such and last year the guy that Hollinger's metrics loved was a player named Tristan Thompson...

Just saying...

Of course ESPN is back to reporting that the Cavs 3 targets are MKG, Beal & Barnes...

So like I said... Waiters is probably on their radar IF they trade down... OR if he falls and they can trade up into the draft.
 
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Piney;2171965; said:
People have reported that the Cavs front office is bigtime into metrics and such and last year the guy that Hollinger's metrics loved was a player named Tristan Thompson...

Just saying...

Of course ESPN is back to reporting that the Cavs 3 targets are MKG, Beal & Barnes...

So like I said... Waiters is probably on their radar IF they trade down... OR if he falls and they can trade up into the draft.
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any wing on hollinger's metrics that has scored 15 or higher has been a perennial all-star, with the exception being kyrie, which is not really an exception. The only guys to ever score higher than 13 and not make the all-star game are rudy gay and josh childress who both just scored over 13, and childress was a junior vs being 19. waiters and MKG both scored over 14.

it's not a fool proof metric, but it has a pretty good track record.

that, and the fact that it's come out that the cavs are targeting waiters and ross as possibilities should they swing a deal for a 2nd lottery pick, and not actually at #4.
 
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tsteele316;2171987; said:
any wing on hollinger's metrics that has scored 15 or higher has been a perennial all-star, with the exception being kyrie, which is not really an exception. The only guys to ever score higher than 13 and not make the all-star game are rudy gay and josh childress who both just scored over 13, and childress was a junior vs being 19. waiters and MKG both scored over 14.
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Need more information on this, such as which statistics Hollinger uses to come up with this statistical formula and which players have scored higher than 15. I feel like Waiters is being overvalued statistically because he scored more than 12 pts/game in 24 minutes rather than looking at the fact his college coach only played him 24 minutes. I highly doubt anyone else that scored that high came off the bench in college.
 
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OH10;2172006; said:
Need more information on this, such as which statistics Hollinger uses to come up with this statistical formula and which players have scored higher than 15. I feel like Waiters is being overvalued statistically because he scored more than 12 pts/game in 24 minutes rather than looking at the fact his college coach only played him 24 minutes. I highly doubt anyone else that scored that high came off the bench in college.
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Only 7 perimeter players have come over 15 on the player rater (Hollingers statistical predictor for rookies): Chris Paul, Melo, Durant, Wade, Danny Granger, Rudy Gay and Kyrie Irving. Waiters came in over 14, as did MKG.

I do believe the formula is very similar to his PER ratings which uses TS%, USG, RR, MPG, AST, TO, VA, and others. So MPG is factored into the equation. What it doesn't factor in is age, and any sort of rankings for defensive ability outside of rebound rates.
 
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