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Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

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ethan said:
Golden State would still give up David Lee and Chicago would still give up Taj Gibson. (plus draft picks)
That's better than Bennett, #9 and another draft pick.
Minnesota doesn't want draft picks. Otherwise the Cavs could give them 4 first rounder's next year. They want an impact player.
Im thinking Minnesota has demanded to get Wiggins. Minnesota would have no reason to cave to the Cavs.
Even if Love demanded to go to the Cavs Minnesota could still demand Wiggins.
As a Free Agent we couldn't sign Love outright without a sign and trade, which means Minnesota would demand Wiggins.

If that is the case...the Cavs would have to either give up Wiggins...or pass on Love.
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This is false. Minnesota definitely wants draft picks. As for getting impact players, neither Gibson or Lee is that. As it pertains to a sign and trade, Minnesota isn't going to cut off its own nose to spite its face.
 
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Oh8ch said:
"Its not worth giving up our last 2 #1 picks and a future first rounder."

One of those #1 picks is arguably one of the worst #1 picks in quite some time. To keep referring to him as a #1 pick as though that makes him something he is not is disingenuous. That he has "looked good in the summer league" is a weak argument for assigning him much value.

The second player in the mix is an unknown quantity. Sometimes you get a LeBron James or Derrick Rose. Sometimes you get a Greg Oden, Kwame Brown, or Michael Olowokandi. The #1 pick on average does not turn out as good as a Kevin Love. And certainly not in the short term.

And any future first round Cavs pick will come late in that round. No more winning lotteries in Cleveland until LeBron moves on.

All that said, if Love is really saying it is Cleveland or nobody the Cavs should be able to cut a better deal.
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Your post makes a good point, but I had to nitpick. The last #1 pick that was a SG/SF to not make an NBA All-Star team, you have to go way back to the 1995 draft when Joe Smith was selected out of Maryland. And then before that, you have to go all the way back to 1976 when Houston selected John Lucas from Maryland.

Just saying, history tells us, that your guards and small forwards are generally a pretty safe pick when selected #1.

The last 10 SG/SF:

J. Wall*
D. Rose*
A. Iverson*
Joe Smith
Larry Johnson*
D. Manning*
Earvin Johnson**
John Lucas
David Thompson**
Doug Collins*

*All Star
**Hall of Fame
 
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Wall, Rose, and arguably Iverson, were point guards. I'm OK with giving up Wiggins, he is raw as a cobb at the moment. Also, from what I've seen, at the NBA level he's a small forward and will never be a shooting guard in a competitive situation. I can't see him backing up Le-jive for the next five years.

Wiggins doesn't handle the ball at all well, and his outside shot is poor at the moment. I'm of the opinion that passing is instinctive. Wiggins had one assist in four summer league games, he should have had more than that by accident. A real red flag is, how amazingly under developed his left hand is. IMHO, if he evolves into a great player, it will take maybe three years.
 
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Oh8ch said:
One of those #1 picks is arguably one of the worst #1 picks in quite some time. To keep referring to him as a #1 pick as though that makes him something he is not is disingenuous. That he has "looked good in the summer league" is a weak argument for assigning him much value.

The second player in the mix is an unknown quantity. Sometimes you get a LeBron James or Derrick Rose. Sometimes you get a Greg Oden, Kwame Brown, or Michael Olowokandi. The #1 pick on average does not turn out as good as a Kevin Love. And certainly not in the short term.
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Your undervaluing Bennett. He had better ball handling and better looking shot mechanics than Wiggins.
I don't think he's a very good fit with the Cavs because he seems better at SF than PF. LeBron already fills that role.
Bennett and Wiggins could be the future of the Cavs. Its a major risk, to potentially lose Bennett, Wiggins, & Love all by next year.
Love is not a lock to re-sign as a Free Agent. A promise or personal guarantee is never a lock.

tsteele316 said:
This is false. Minnesota definitely wants draft picks. As for getting impact players, neither Gibson or Lee is that. As it pertains to a sign and trade, Minnesota isn't going to cut off its own nose to spite its face.
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This year I would value Lee or Gibson higher than Bennett.
Minnesota wants something more than draft picks. Otherwise the Cavs would have this trade in the bag.
 
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ethan said:
Your undervaluing Bennett. He had better ball handling and better looking shot mechanics than Wiggins.
I don't think he's a very good fit with the Cavs because he seems better at SF than PF. LeBron already fills that role.
Bennett and Wiggins could be the future of the Cavs. Its a major risk, to potentially lose Bennett, Wiggins, & Love all by next year.
Love is not a lock to re-sign as a Free Agent. A promise or personal guarantee is never a lock.



This year I would value Lee or Gibson higher than Bennett.
Minnesota wants something more than draft picks. Otherwise the Cavs would have this trade in the bag.
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Minnesota is rebuilding. It's borderline stupid to think they would make a trade based on who's better right now. Lee's contract is an albatross and he's old. Gibson is a backup pf that is 29. Rebuilding teams want young talent and picks.
 
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I think it's very telling that LeBron hasn't even contacted Wiggins at all. You would think at least he would reach out to him after he agreed to sign in CLE. Not to mention there was no... well, mention of Wiggins in LeBron's SI article. Definitely makes it clear LeBron wants and expects Love and for Wiggins to be gone. It's not like I expected LeBron to go out and party with Wiggins but not even a phone call or a text? Surprising.
 
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stowfan said:
Click on this link, check out the videos found in post 1366, and say to yourself, this guy is only 25 years old.

http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?44322-Andrew-Wiggins/page92
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My issue is that in one of those videos his team was losing to CSKA Moscow. There's no question that he can score and grab some boards, and if he were even an average defender I think it'd be a no-brainer. He isn't though, and his teams have never found success. I do think he's a top 10 player in the league, but how many top 10 guys can't drag their franchise to the 8 seed once in their 6 year career? That seems off to me. I think I've come to realize that I would do this deal (probably not until February, though), but if Wiggins becomes what he's supposed to then the Cavs may be regretting it as soon as this year.
 
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BuckeyeMafia said:
My issue is that in one of those videos his team was losing to CSKA Moscow. There's no question that he can score and grab some boards, and if he were even an average defender I think it'd be a no-brainer. He isn't though, and his teams have never found success. I do think he's a top 10 player in the league, but how many top 10 guys can't drag their franchise to the 8 seed once in their 6 year career? That seems off to me. I think I've come to realize that I would do this deal (probably not until February, though), but if Wiggins becomes what he's supposed to then the Cavs may be regretting it as soon as this year.
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Agreed.
 
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BuckeyeMafia said:
My issue is that in one of those videos his team was losing to CSKA Moscow. There's no question that he can score and grab some boards, and if he were even an average defender I think it'd be a no-brainer. He isn't though, and his teams have never found success. I do think he's a top 10 player in the league, but how many top 10 guys can't drag their franchise to the 8 seed once in their 6 year career? That seems off to me. I think I've come to realize that I would do this deal (probably not until February, though), but if Wiggins becomes what he's supposed to then the Cavs may be regretting it as soon as this year.
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Some flaws in this logic. First, Cleveland already has a guy that has put teams on his back and single handedly won titles. Secondly, Minnesota actually had a decent record when love was healthy and their peripherals were not bad. Love can't control being in the west and having a moron for a hc.
 
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OleOleOleOle said:
I think it's very telling that LeBron hasn't even contacted Wiggins at all. You would think at least he would reach out to him after he agreed to sign in CLE. Not to mention there was no... well, mention of Wiggins in LeBron's SI article. Definitely makes it clear LeBron wants and expects Love and for Wiggins to be gone. It's not like I expected LeBron to go out and party with Wiggins but not even a phone call or a text? Surprising.
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I did find it interesting that Lebron mentioned Waiters and not Wiggins. He probably figures that he has 5-8 years left in the tank so in his mind there isn't a point in playing with a guy that won't hit his prime until the end of that window. Kyrie, Waiters, Love, and Thompson all probably have the same or a little more shelf life than Lebron and are all close to or just starting their prime. Andy is the only starter that only has a few years left so the Cavs will have to work out a replacement at center unless they think Thompson can bulk up enough to play it. I think he'll be better playing 30 minutes as the 3rd big.

If they do trade Wiggins Waiters will need to spend extra time working on his D and spot up shooting. Waiters has the ability to be an above average defender, which the Cavs will need. Lebron will also have to focus more on D than O, but with Kyrie and Love's ability to score he will be able to spend more time as a spot up shooter than all-everything. Next summer the Cavs will have Haywood's 10.5 mil contract and draft picks to trade for a defensive center so hopefully they can get something done.
 
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If LeBron does expect Wiggins to be traded and he did contact him, what would he say? More specifically, what would he say that wouldn't piss Wiggins off or compromise a prospective trade?
 
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Oh8ch said:
If LeBron does expect Wiggins to be traded and he did contact him, what would he say? More specifically, what would he say that wouldn't piss Wiggins off or compromise a prospective trade?
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"Hey man, welcome to the league, congratulations on being #1 overall".... I think to me it would be worse if my teammates didn't even really speak to me much because they just assume I'm gone.
 
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