Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

[OleOleOleOle]

I still say F it, let Minn F off. If Wiggins and Bennett and a 1st rounder aren't good enough, then there is no reason to even talk to them anymore about more than that.

Even if the Cavs don't get Love, I would thoroughly enjoy seeing Minn wait around and ask for too much only to get burned and get crap in return compared to what they could have. I get that they want to get as much as they can, but if Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st rder aren't good enough forget it.

 

[BuckeyeMafia]

If Minnesota gets more than Wiggins, Bennett, and picks, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for Griffin and the entire organization. If those reports are true then Minnesota truly has the Cavs front office bent over with their pants around their ankles. According to ESPN the talks are "heating up" but I can only hope this is a Minnesota smokescreen. Whether or not you think Kevin Love is the answer, I sincerely doubt that he's worth half the roster and the team's future.

 

[Mac]

Like NFBuck said, I don't think the ESPN writers have a clue. They are grasping at straws trying to get any kind of story that relates to Lebron because its the hot story. From the Cavs insiders I've seen on Twitter, they've said Wiggins has not been included in talks.

After how bad Broussard's reporting was of LBJ and his free agency, I have a hard time believing what he/ESPN says

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Well, Broussard is reporting that the Cavs are offering Wigggins, Bennett, and a number one and the T-Wolves are still saying that's not enough. Talk about Griffin getting played like a harp--the T-Wolves probably can't believe their luck with pushing the Cavs' front office around.... I'm beginning to think that if the T-Wolves asked for LeBron, the Cavs would agree.

I'd like to think that even a Cleveland pro-team front office isn't that stupid...

I still say F it, let Minn F off. If Wiggins and Bennett and a 1st rounder aren't good enough, then there is no reason to even talk to them anymore about more than that.Even if the Cavs don't get Love, I would thoroughly enjoy seeing Minn wait around and ask for too much only to get burned and get crap in return compared to what they could have. I get that they want to get as much as they can, but if Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st rder aren't good enough forget it.

If Minnesota gets more than Wiggins, Bennett, and picks, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for Griffin and the entire organization. If those reports are true then Minnesota truly has the Cavs front office bent over with their pants around their ankles. According to ESPN the talks are "heating up" but I can only hope this is a Minnesota smokescreen. Whether or not you think Kevin Love is the answer, I sincerely doubt that he's worth half the roster and the team's future.

The fear of greatness on this board is mind boggling.

Here's a little life lesson for free: You don't become successful looking for bargains, you become successful by finding the best and doing whatever it takes to obtain it.

 

[buckeyesin07]

The fear of greatness on this board is mind boggling.

Here's a little life lesson for free: You don't become successful looking for bargains, you become successful by finding the best and doing whatever it takes to obtain it.

Thanks for the life lesson, but it's inapplicable to this situation. Unless you're suggesting that Love is "the best," in which case I'd be interested to learn what metric you're using to come to that conclusion.

In all seriousness, at this point we're all arguing past one another. Fundamentally, those who wouldn't trade Wiggins, either straight up or as part of a deal, for Love wouldn't do so largely because they think Love isn't an elite player (he's horrible defensively, he stats on a horrible team aren't a true reflection of his value as a player). Those who think the Cavs should package Wiggins and more for Love seem to believe Love is a top 10 (or even a top 5) player in the NBA. I don't think one side is going to convince the other...

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

I learned.. Broussard has sources... the many voices WITHIN his own head...

 

[jwinslow]

The fear of greatness on this board is mind boggling.

clearly that's it.

Giving up two #1 picks and future top picks is an incredible steep price for a one year rental, especially when the salaries of all of those parts are much lower than what Love will demand, which handcuffs what they can do with and possibly after Love.

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

clearly that's it.

Giving up two #1 picks and future top picks is an incredible steep price for a one year rental, especially when the salaries of all of those parts are much lower than what Love will demand, which handcuffs what they can do with and possibly after Love.

It wouldn't be a one year rental. You don't make the trade unless you're keeping him after. Most likely even signing him to an extension as part of the trade.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Thanks for the life lesson, but it's inapplicable to this situation. Unless you're suggesting that Love is "the best," in which case I'd be interested to learn what metric you're using to come to that conclusion.

Love is #3 in "player efficiency rating", behind Durant and LeBron. LINK

Love is #3 in "value added", again behind Durant and LeBron. LINK

Love is #3 in "estimated wins added" (with 21.5), once again behind Durant and LeBron. LINK

Oh, and get this: Love is #5 in "defensive rebound rate". LINK So much for the argument that he doesn't play any defense.

Is that enough "metrics" for you?

Fundamentally, those who wouldn't trade Wiggins, either straight up or as part of a deal, for Love wouldn't do so largely because they think Love isn't an elite player (he's horrible defensively, he stats on a horrible team aren't a true reflection of his value as a player).

Those who think the Cavs should package Wiggins and more for Love seem to believe Love is a top 10 (or even a top 5) player in the NBA. I don't think one side is going to convince the other...

I think that the metrics cited above go a long way toward demonstrating that Love is a top-5 player in the NBA.

The people who are against a Wiggins for Love deal are simply afraid. Fortunately, Dan Gilbert will not be.

clearly that's it.

Giving up two #1 picks and future top picks is an incredible steep price for a one year rental, especially when the salaries of all of those parts are much lower than what Love will demand, which handcuffs what they can do with and possibly after Love.

You just made my point for me. This is a perfect example of the "fear of greatness" point of view.

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

One thing I don't get is everyone saying his stats are meaningless since he was on a bad team. Firstly, he was on a .500 team in the west. Barely missed making the playoffs. Would have most likely been the #3 seed in the East. And yes, their team is shit, making it even more impressive. But even if you don't agree with that, would you agree that by the same set of standards, Kyrie Irving is an overrated player since his team couldn't even make the playoffs in the horrible East?

 

[Bucks21]

Injury prone guy coming Cleveland ? Injury concern Cleveland......

 

[buckeyesin07]

Love is #3 in "player efficiency rating", behind Durant and LeBron. LINK

Love is #3 in "value added", again behind Durant and LeBron. LINK

Love is #3 in "estimated wins added" (with 21.5), once again behind Durant and LeBron. LINK

Oh, and get this: Love is #5 in "defensive rebound rate". LINK So much for the argument that he doesn't play any defense.

Is that enough "metrics" for you?

Your post referred to "the best." So, until I see a #1 up there (somewhere, anywhere), no, that's not enough metrics.

I think that the metrics cited above go a long way toward demonstrating that Love is a top-5 player in the NBA.

I think everyone on this board would like to have Love on the Cavs. I know I would. I just think the Cavs should be smart in the process. In my opinion, throwing two #1 overall picks plus other future first-round selections at a team that has no leverage in this situation, Minnesota, is not the smart approach.

The people who are against a Wiggins for Love deal are simply afraid. Fortunately, Dan Gilbert will not be.

"Afraid" is a characterization. And no more helpful in this back-and-forth than someone saying people who would trade Wiggins for Love are simply dumb, simply impatient, or simply short-sighted.

 

[buckeyesin07]

One thing I don't get is everyone saying his stats are meaningless since he was on a bad team. Firstly, he was on a .500 team in the west. Barely missed making the playoffs. Would have most likely been the #3 seed in the East. And yes, their team is [Mark May], making it even more impressive. But even if you don't agree with that, would you agree that by the same set of standards, Kyrie Irving is an overrated player since his team couldn't even make the playoffs in the horrible East?

If Irving were on Minnesota and the Cavs' front office were considering trading Wiggins, Bennett, and other future first-round picks for Irving, I'd think that's ridiculous too. So what was your point again?

 

[AKAK]

Love is #3 in "player efficiency rating", behind Durant and LeBron. LINK

Love is #3 in "value added", again behind Durant and LeBron. LINK

Love is #3 in "estimated wins added" (with 21.5), once again behind Durant and LeBron. LINK

Oh, and get this: Love is #5 in "defensive rebound rate". LINK So much for the argument that he doesn't play any defense.

Is that enough "metrics" for you?


I think that the metrics cited above go a long way toward demonstrating that Love is a top-5 player in the NBA.

The people who are against a Wiggins for Love deal are simply afraid. Fortunately, Dan Gilbert will not be.


You just made my point for me. This is a perfect example of the "fear of greatness" point of view.

Its enough for me. The last stat there is the clincher, honestly. Personally I love Wiggins too.... But as for "future #1's" give them all they want... Cave will be stashing guys in Europe with them anyway. They actually have more value to Minnesota than us. They can have them

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Your post referred to "the best." So, until I see a #1 up there (somewhere, anywhere), no, that's not enough metrics.

This is literally hilarious.

I think everyone on this board would like to have Love on the Cavs. I know I would. I just think the Cavs should be smart in the process. In my opinion, throwing two #1 overall picks plus other future first-round selections at a team that has no leverage in this situation, Minnesota, is not the smart approach.

Minnesota has a player that Cleveland wants. That pretty much gives Minnesota all of the leverage.