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Cleveland Browns (2016 thread of unrelenting dumpster conflagration)

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LitlBuck said:
I do not quite understand this comment because he is one of the highest rated RT's in the NFL and really wanted to stay in Cleveland. Plus, he probably have 5-6 years of good football left in him.
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This goes back to when and where he was drafted. I believe you were privy to some of the exchanges that tsteele and I had about this pick. To put it simply, we did not agree. With that said, I am no expert especially on the big uglies, however, I was never impressed with HIS quality of play. He held the point-of-attack fine and movement inside was pretty good. Again this is my opinion, his ability to seal the corner or block beyond the tackle box was average at best which means his lateral speed was lacking. When it came to passing, he was an average pass protector but that could be contributed to the quality of QB the Browns put behind the Center or the overall quality of the line (which some have said was the best squad on the team). Maybe it's a combination of all the above.

From what I have read (did we really know what transpired behind close doors?) he was given an offer of $8M I believe was the offer per season, he (or agent) said he wanted to test the market, when he saw what his market value was, THEN he wanted to come back to management and asked if that offer was still on the table and management stated that the offer was off the table. SO, did he really want to stay in Cleveland? I do not blame him for testing the waters, that is the nature of the business. But do you tell the current lady your dating to stand-by, I want to see if I can find something better only to return and find she has moved on?
 
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LitlBuck said:
well as some people have said before there are only 32 of these positions available in the NFL. Perhaps he should have gone to the CFL.
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Or he could have spent another year as the OC of a high-powered Bengals offense and take a better job next year. There are 31 better jobs in the NFL. This is his second, and likely final chance as a HC in the NFL. And taking a job like the clowns, with an impatient owner, and zero stability over 17 years of existence is essentially career suicide...head coaching-wise. They will quite possibly be historically bad this year, maybe marginally better in 2017, then he has to hope they break trend and put together a competent team by year three. That's a tall order. Yeah, they could improve the roster through the draft, but not totally. Free agents aren't now, and likely won't be lining up at the door in Berea to play for a hapless organization until they show they're moving in the right direction, and they're gonna have to supplement their drafting through FA.

Lets say the next two years play out like this:
2016: 2-14
2017: 5-11

Does Tennessee Jerrah even give him a year three with a 7-25 record? Maybe he's learned something, and would be patient this time, but I wouldn't bet on it. If, big IF, Jackson makes it to year three, he better hope they some how cobble together a decent team by then. The roster is barren right now. This is a total ground-up rebuild. Jackson is well-regarded and it seemed like he had options. Just an odd choice on his part.

Incidentally, I was hoping he'd end up with the Niners. I like him as a coach. I know the Niners are a bit of a mess themselves, but not on this level.
 
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ArmyVet83 said:
From what I have read (did we really know what transpired behind close doors?) he was given an offer of $8M I believe was the offer per season, he (or agent) said he wanted to test the market, when he saw what his market value was, THEN he wanted to come back to management and asked if that offer was still on the table and management stated that the offer was off the table. SO, did he really want to stay in Cleveland? I do not blame him for testing the waters, that is the nature of the business. But do you tell the current lady your dating to stand-by, I want to see if I can find something better only to return and find she has moved on?
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I have no idea what went on behind "closed doors" but I do know that his fiancée was from Cleveland and that is one of the reasons he wanted to stay. Also, regarding his position ranking, you might want to go to Profootballfocus.com and see where he ranks regarding RT's. I would have thought that he would have taken the $7 mil if Cleveland countered his offer if in fact he really want to stay in Cleveland, because of his fiancée, so maybe he did want to leave.
 
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LitlBuck said:
I have no idea what went on behind "closed doors" but I do know that his fiancée was from Cleveland and that is one of the reasons he wanted to stay. Also, regarding his position ranking, you might want to go to Profootballfocus.com and see where he ranks regarding RT's. I would have thought that he would have taken the $7 mil if Cleveland countered his offer if in fact he really want to stay in Cleveland, because of his fiancée, so maybe he did want to leave.
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he only wanted to know if the offer was still on the table so he could take it to KC to match or exceed. that was the front office's impression of him. this was the same offer, if you recall, his agent said was insulting at the combine. schwartz's agent shit the bed and cost his client money by playing a game.
 
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LitlBuck said:
I have no idea what went on behind "closed doors" but I do know that his fiancée was from Cleveland and that is one of the reasons he wanted to stay. Also, regarding his position ranking, you might want to go to Profootballfocus.com and see where he ranks regarding RT's. I would have thought that he would have taken the $7 mil if Cleveland countered his offer if in fact he really want to stay in Cleveland, because of his fiancée, so maybe he did want to leave.
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Like I said, I am no expert, don't claim to be BUT I based it on what I saw on the field. I did not say he was terrible. Personally, I thought he was better suited inside at Guard.

As far as what publication states what about who, this also involves money, loyalty and least of all fit (not only talent). IMO, he is a slightly above average RT and I'm almost willing to bet that the Browns FO saw more due to the $8M offer (naturally the Browns are going to have to overpay), could they have countered? Sure? They didn't. The decided to go in a different direction and either move Bitino to RT and draft a guard or keep Bitino @ Guard and draft a RT. Or sign a FA (Bailey) to come in to serve at LG or RT. None the less, this part was a money move because they made an offer and in the end was not accepted.

Next loyalty, you make an above market offer (FO did their homework) and its rejected. If the agent was doing his homework, he would have known what Mitch would have been worth. Granted a half-mil or so per year isn't much when one talks that many zeros but at this point in time, leaving Cleveland for a bit more money and the opportunity to go to the playoffs and play for a winner, I do not fault him for that at all. In this instance, loyalty involves staying with the team your with through thick and thin. Winning and losing and your reward for that loyalty is with an above average offer for a very durable (64 starts in 4 years) RT on a shitty team.

As far as a fit, a team needs good linemen on both sides of the ball and I feel Schwartz is a fit at the right price and the Browns made him an offer which he refused and signed with another team in which he has a great opportunity to go to the playoffs and do well.

Will the Browns find someone that Profootballfocus.com finds just as good. Hell who knows but we will see.
 
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We'll see how all this plays out in the end but the perception is that the FO has bungled things and insulted a lot of folks. We'll see during the draft and next year with Free Agency if the team continues to have the reputation as shefter put it "like College - 4 years then done"
 
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LitlBuck said:
might as well take RG III because with our OL we will need as many QB's as possible this coming season if you can call him a QB
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As long as they don't back up the Brinks truck or even hand him a really small envelope. He needs to get paid as "just a body." That's what the Browns need for now and RGIII can only be "just a body" for about two or three hits before we are just paying him to keep the cold Cleveland benches warm and for his locker room cancer causing abilities.
 
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CFPBuckeye said:
As long as they don't back up the Brinks truck or even hand him a really small envelope. He needs to get paid as "just a body." That's what the Browns need for now and RGIII can only be "just a body" for about two or three hits before we are just paying him to keep the cold Cleveland benches warm and for his locker room cancer causing abilities.
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All he has to do is keep his ears clean so he can hear the words "Look Out"
 
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LitlBuck said:
All he has to do is keep his ears clean so he can hear the words "Look Out"
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I have a feeling he'll be hearing that on every play. His line hated him in Washington. The Browns' line will be giving up sacks wiithout hating him even if they tried to protect him. Of course RGIII will be the cause of half of those sacks when he "scrambles," but he doesn't deal with the hits well and they are never his fault. Give him one game and he'll have enemies at every position on the line. That puts his life expectancy around 2 games. Plus...Cleveland + FA signing = fate.

Edit: On second thought, he might not even hear a "look out" with clean ears. The line has to yell it out for him to hear it.
 
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