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Cleveland Browns (2014 Season)

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BVistahC said:
It was not the same competition, but Sumlin's teams at Houston put up video-game numbers as well, which is why I'm also skeptical. It can't be all fake numbers, but Case Keenum had a lot of yardage as a QB (at Houston).
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still not buying it. While Keenum was about average as a QB in his 8 starts and certainly better than anything the Browns have the roster except for maybe Hoyer, meh....

In the same offense in College, you have to literally go back 3 seasons to get as many INTs and with about 400 more attempts from Keenum as Johnny FUBAR had this year alone.
 
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Buckeneye said:
At this point I"m just saying no Ma'am to any QB in the 1st two rounds. They have the opportunity to add play makers and valuable depth to this squad in this draft. Something we haven't had the luxury of since the return of the team. I think of a QB as the perfect woman, you won't necessarily go out and be successful hunting for her; In some cases, you just happen to run into each other. Obviously I"m not saying Hoyer is that franchise QB, but damnit the Seahawks just won a Superbowl with Russel Wilson who is by far and away not an elite QB. Don't tell me a smart, heady player like Hoyer who can diagnose a defense, make some good throws and buy time with his legs can't somehow be successful with the right surrounding cast.
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Excellent point right here. I think the last two SBs have proven that defense still wins championships and that teams can win it with a decent QB and good surrounding cast. Look what happened with Flacco when he took all the money and his D and surrounding cast were not what they had been.
 
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I was interested in seeing how much teams invested draft picks in QBs. So I took the top-30 passing yds QBs and divided them into a few categories.

1st Round w/same team (overall)
Matthew Stafford (1)
Matt Ryan (3)
Roethlialkj;dakfja;l (11)
Ryan Tannehill (8)
Joe Flacco (18)
Andrew Luck (1)
Eli Manning (1)
Cam Newton (1)
RGIII (2)
Aaron Rodgers (24)
EJ Manuel (16)

1st Round w/diff team (overall)
Peyton Manning (1)
Philip Rivers (4)
Carson Palmer (1)
Alex Smith (1)
Jay Cutler (11)
Jason Campbell (25)

1st Round w/minimal stats in 2013 going back to 2004 ((10 years may seem excessive -- but quite a few of the people in above categories go back that far))
Brandon Weeden (22)
Sam Bradford (1)
Christian Ponder (12)
Jake Locker (8)
Blaine Gabbert (10)
Tim Tebow (25)
Mark Sanchez (5)
Michael Vick (1)
Josh Freeman (17)
JaMarcus Russell (1)
Brady Quinn (22)
Vince Young (3)
Matt Leinart (10)
JP Losman (22)


Other Rounds (Round):
Drew Brees (2)
Tom Brady (6)
Andy Dalton (2)
Tony Romo (Undrafted)
Russell Wilson (3)
Chad Henne (2)
Colin Kaepernick (2)
Geno Smith (2)
Nick Foles (3)
Mike Glennon (3)
Ryan Fitzpatrick (7)
Matt Schaub (3)
Josh McCown (3)

Divider for those under top-30 with over 500yds
Matt Cassel (7)
Terrelle Pryor (3)
Case Keenum (Undrafted)
Kellen Clemens (2)
Matt McGloin (Undrafted)
Matt Flynn (7)
Thad Lewis (Undrafted)
Kirk Cousins (4)
Scott Tolzien (Undrafted)
Brian Hoyer (Undrafted)
 
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Only took about 20min actually. Copy and Paste is amazing.
There was a lot more success in 1st round picks than I had expected... still, only about 50/50.
Not sure if it makes the argument that drafting 1st round is a huge gamble or just how pathetic Browns' scouting is to go 0/3 ... or both.
Still, I think it shows you can get results in the 2nd and 3rd round or FA as well.
 
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kujirakira said:
Only took about 20min actually. Copy and Paste is amazing.
There was a lot more success in 1st round picks than I had expected... still, only about 50/50.
Not sure if it makes the argument that drafting 1st round is a huge gamble or just how pathetic Browns' scouting is to go 0/3 ... or both.
Still, I think it shows you can get results in the 2nd and 3rd round or FA as well.
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For extra credit you could analyze each of the successful picks and see which ones has solid defenses, good running games, etc when they were drafted instead of what guys like Weeden/Quinn/Couch/etc have been drafted into on the Clowns....
 
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kujirakira said:
I think that excuse holds for Couch. Not sure it works as well for Quinn or Weeden.
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That's what I'm saying - for each Manning and Flacco, you get guys like JP Losman, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Leinart, etc who get drafted to horrible teams and who then has basically no hope for sustained success. Guys like Luck and RGIII coming onto bad teams usually don't fare as well as those two did as rookies.

I would bet that on the 50% that did well as 1st round picks, their teams were at least league average in other areas and that the 50% that failed had teams that were basically crap. Just an idea....
 
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Well, first off I'd probably say not everyone on that list is really a success. I mean top-30 is basically just the starting QBs. If not for his thumb, Weeden probably would have made that list.
I wouldn't really consider Flacco a huge "success" either. He's definitely a product of everyone else on that team, but I also don't think anyone could've just stepped in and been successful there.
Anyway, I just wanted to be objective and put up the list of 1st rounders who were still starters at the team that invested that pick and let everyone else pick the names apart.

Getting back to the Flacco point, I think Leinart and Losman at least would have been busts (as 1st rounders) no matter where they went. Losman has actually revitalized his career; but he's still proven to be nothing more than a backup at best. I can't really say anything about Gabbert b/c I can't remember seeing him play... but you've gotta be kinda shite to lose your job to Chad Henne imo.
I feel the same way about Quinn. He could've been drafted by the Ravens and he'd still be a 1st round bust. As we all know Quinn went to Denver where he had a great opportunity to fight for the job against Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow. He essentially came in 3rd. I know he was in Seattle this year too, and came in 3rd again -- to Wilson and Tavaris Jackson.
Brady Quinn just wasn't that good to begin with -- he was a product of ESPN's love affair with ND and nothing more. I think the rest of the NFL had realized that by the time the draft came around and he fell to 22nd overall to the chumps running the Browns in 2007 ... after ESPN had been insisting he'd be a top-5 or top-10 pick since his Jr. season. We got taken to the cleaners on that stupid trade too.
 
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Trust me, I know Quinn wasn't good enough when the Browns drafted him. :evil:

Does that count as the bat signal? Ehh, Hatehineygate is banned anyway.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the guys who have an average or improving supporting cast have a serious leg up on guys who won't necessarily have that around them and are seen as the "savior" for the franchise by being that 1st round pick (Sam Bradford comes to mind here too).

Something I've said the past couple of Browns drafts - get the system in place, get some of the players in place for that system and build something akin to stability and then bring in the QB for it.
 
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Although it's really a position of strength (depending on what happens with Rubin and his contract). Damn I'd love to have Aaron Donald. That kid has unbelievable quickness for being 290. He, Taylor and Bryant would provide an incredible interior pass rush.
 
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