Cleveland Browns (2013 Season)

[Bucklion]

The main consolation for me was that they didn't take a QB. Taking a QB in the 1st round, anywhere in the 1st round even if they traded down, would have signified levels of stupidity and incompetency not seen since the "mad dog in a meat market".

What still bothers me the most is rarely does a team, any team, have an alignment where best player AND greatest need coalesce. The Browns were in that unusual alignment with Miliner being available at #6. And it was passed over.

So serious questions I would have for the Browns front office: Why not grab a CB in free agency? Why not grab one for a 1 year contract? Why not sign a Grimes (or even Winfield) for 1 year in the intent was to use #6 on an OLB? Also, just who in the hell is going to play CB? What about another safety? Does Horton have some magic dust that he can sprinkle on a 3rd round CB that makes him a starter...a starter that isn't a liability?

And I will not accept as an answer that the teams has many needs that all can't be addressed in one year. The biggest need, by far, is starting CB and you (Banner and Lombardi) chose to ignore that in the first round.

Also to play Devil's advocate, the 2 "best" corners in the draft, Milliner and the guy from Houston, had major injury concerns. whatever information they were privy to could have indicated that the risk wasn't worth the reward. I agree we need a corner, I have been saying DB in general is where we need the most help, but with this particular draft, and the pick that we had...other than trading down to take the safety from Texas (who is more Ward than free, probably) I don't know that there were a lot of spectacular options.

 

[Bucklion]

Barkevious Mingo vs Clemson (Bowl Game - 2012) - YouTube


You only wish he could put on another 8-10lbs, maintain most of that explosion and have that intensity on every snap.

He loves that outside speed rush, uses the spin move almost exclusively on going inside. Hoping he learns that outside step push (off) then in while tearing with hands.

I like our coaching staff. Give them some time and who knows, he might be an effective player in this scheme.

I will say this, regardless of the couple times he rushed up-field to far and fast, there were more plays that he was rallying to the ball and being disruptive. The potential is there.

I agree about the coaching of Horton...I mean Calais Campbell has turned into a hell of a lot more than anyone thought he would...so it is possible they will get the best out of Mingo. Now how high a ceiling that is, well...who knows.

 

[stowfan]

I know it won't happen, but I hope the Brown keep Sheard while this kid figures out what the hell he's doing.

 

[buckiprof]

because the one thing that horton's scheme requires cb's to do often is play man coverage, and millner's primary weakness is doing just that. the overrating of millner by many because of the perceived need at cb is over the top. the browns weren't going to have two top 6 picks invested in cb's. it just wasn't going to happen. most successful teams in the nfl don't invest that heavily into the position.

drafting guys that don't fit what you want to do because of a perceived need at the position is the quickest route to the unemployment line. it's how you end up with guys like kam wimbley instead of haloti ngata.

I will somewhat disagree with that assessment on Milliner, but that is irrelevant to not addressing the biggest need. I don't think Milliner was overrated, I think he was considered the top CB in the draft by everyone (not just Browns fans who know that CB is the teams biggest weakness) and when all "experts" have that consensus on a player there may be something to it.

So I think Milliner would have been fine with Horton's scheme and it is the biggest need on the team....it is not a perceived need, but a very real, pressing need. But a case could be made that Xavier Rhodes might be better for Horton's scheme which then leads to the obvious....trade down to address the biggest need with the player that you believe is best suited for that. Again, it is the unusual alignment of best player and biggest need. Could have done that and probably acquired a 2nd round pick in the trade down.

Instead, the Browns drafted a player at #6 that isn't an area of great need (like CB) and ironically, they may have basically drafted Kam Wimbley v2.0. (Which is exactly what I said to my buddy when they drafted Mingo!).

I would have been beyond thrilled if the Browns had traded down, acquired a 2nd round pick, and taken Xavier Rhodes in the 1st round. A couple of days ago I proposed that idea to my son mainly because I do think Rhodes is a good "fit" for Horton's scheme. Biggest need addressed and an extra pick....brilliant work IMO. Instead Browns draft someone that has to be converted from DE to OLB (I don't care what anyone says, there is always risk involved in that) at a position that isn't a huge need. (Hell,I think getting an OG is a bigger need than what was drafted, but that's me.)

But if the Browns had pulled off a trade, acquired Rhodes and a 2nd round pick, I would probably be pissed tonight when that 2nd round pick would be wasted on Geno Smith.

 

[Buckeneye]

I know it won't happen, but I hope the Brown keep Sheard while this kid figures out what the hell he's doing.

Double-edged sword there.

The trade value for Sheard won't get any higher then right now. So if you're going to shop him, do it ASAP. Groves (unless suspended) can play the SOLB until this kid gets his feet wet and comes in for the pass-rushing sub packages.

 

[Buckeneye]

But if the Browns had pulled off a trade, acquired Rhodes and a 2nd round pick, I would probably be pissed tonight when that 2nd round pick would be wasted on Geno Smith.

Rhodes is a decent press-cover CB. He doesn't have the hips or fluidity to play in space. At worst you could probably have a pretty solid FS, although that switch isn't always as easy as just saying it.

I do tend to agree, I would have preferred the trade down.

The question to me, remains - unless we do re-coup a 2nd rounder for Sheard, what DB's will be available in the 3rd round?

 

[stowfan]

Rhodes is a decent press-cover CB. He doesn't have the hips or fluidity to play in space. At worst you could probably have a pretty solid FS, although that switch isn't always as easy as just saying it.

I do tend to agree, I would have preferred the trade down.

The question to me, remains - unless we do re-coup a 2nd rounder for Sheard, what DB's will be available in the 3rd round?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2013/CB

 

[stowfan]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2013/CB

Of that list, numbers 5, 8,9, and 11 all have exceptional 40 times.

 

[Buckeneye]

I could give a shit less about exceptional 40 times.

Haden ran in the 4.5's at the combine IIRC.

Banks won't make it to the 3rd. Sanders Commings
Just might. I'd be all over that shit if I were Banner.

 

[tsteele316]

I could give a shit less about exceptional 40 times.

Haden ran in the 4.5's at the combine IIRC.

Banks won't make it to the 3rd. Sanders Commings
Just might. I'd be all over that shit if I were Banner.

the way it's shaping up, it looks like there will be a few quality cb's on the board in the 3rd. there's going to be a run on skilled position players in the 2nd with probably 2-3 qb's, 2 rb's, 3 wr's and at least two te's coming off the board.

with there being such a run on OL in the 1st, you're probably going to get a secondary run on the next tier of OL in the 2nd. you'll probably see a few db's get picked, but i doubt there's going to be a run on them.

 

[stowfan]

I could give a shit less about exceptional 40 times.

Haden ran in the 4.5's at the combine IIRC.

Banks won't make it to the 3rd. Sanders Commings
Just might. I'd be all over that shit if I were Banner.

Wade, who the Browns took in the 6th round last year ran a 4.65 at the combine last year and was all PAC10.

 

[tsteele316]

I will somewhat disagree with that assessment on Milliner, but that is irrelevant to not addressing the biggest need. I don't think Milliner was overrated, I think he was considered the top CB in the draft by everyone (not just Browns fans who know that CB is the teams biggest weakness) and when all "experts" have that consensus on a player there may be something to it.

So I think Milliner would have been fine with Horton's scheme and it is the biggest need on the team....it is not a perceived need, but a very real, pressing need. But a case could be made that Xavier Rhodes might be better for Horton's scheme which then leads to the obvious....trade down to address the biggest need with the player that you believe is best suited for that. Again, it is the unusual alignment of best player and biggest need. Could have done that and probably acquired a 2nd round pick in the trade down.

Instead, the Browns drafted a player at #6 that isn't an area of great need (like CB) and ironically, they may have basically drafted Kam Wimbley v2.0. (Which is exactly what I said to my buddy when they drafted Mingo!).

I would have been beyond thrilled if the Browns had traded down, acquired a 2nd round pick, and taken Xavier Rhodes in the 1st round. A couple of days ago I proposed that idea to my son mainly because I do think Rhodes is a good "fit" for Horton's scheme. Biggest need addressed and an extra pick....brilliant work IMO. Instead Browns draft someone that has to be converted from DE to OLB (I don't care what anyone says, there is always risk involved in that) at a position that isn't a huge need. (Hell,I think getting an OG is a bigger need than what was drafted, but that's me.)

But if the Browns had pulled off a trade, acquired Rhodes and a 2nd round pick, I would probably be pissed tonight when that 2nd round pick would be wasted on Geno Smith.

millner is the best cb in this class, but he's overrated, mainly by browns fans. he wouldnt be the 1st db picked in just about any year. he doesn't fit what the browns like to do on defense, and he does have some injury red flags.

mingo is so unlike kam wimbley it's not really worth addressing.

 

[stowfan]

Thought you guys could use a little humor from Bleacher report:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1617244-2013-nfl-draft-grades-full-round-1-report-card/page/7

 

[Buckeneye]

I remember highlighting some of Milliners problems in the middle of the season.
He did improve his man coverage skills and ball awareness throughout the season.

Was he the next coming? No. A quality CB? Absolutely. Obviously the red-flags on the injuries were a bit alarming to the Browns staff.

The only comparison to Wimbley with Mingo is that both like the outside rush. Mingo is way faster off the snap though and has volumes more athletic ability to play and cover in space.

edit:

Mingo ate your baby.
Mingo just pawn in game of life.
And Mingo was his Name-O.

^^ This is what the offseason will look like for us.

double edit: From the Mingo conference. He seems like a nice kid. Smart. Hardworking. So at least I don't expect him to be busted trying to pay for snatch anytime soon.

 

[LitlBuck]

Sorry I am so late to the party. Unlike the majority of you guys, I am fine with the pick. I think most of you guys would have bitched about any player that the Browns drafted except maybe for Milliner and from what I heard last night he has had about 3-4 surgeries. Talk about taking a shot in the dark. We shall see how Mingo turns out. If he puts on 10-15 pounds, he will be a very good OLB.

Hopefully, the Browns will get some help for the defensive backfield tonight be it a safety or CB. Even a OG will be all right with me.

Next year I must remind myself not to read anything from the so-called experts who have their sources about what teams are going to take what players. Kiper and Gruden were just terrible last night with their predictions and then there fast turnarounds saying oh that is exactly what x team needed. They could we be replaced by kindergartners.